The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 1 year ago

Better Communication Through Conversational Texting w/ Jonathan Pogact


No one likes having dinner interrupted by a phone call.


And no one buys when they are unhappy.


So, how can we reach our prospects in a manner and time that’s convenient for them?


In this episode, I’m joined by Jonathan Pogact, VP of Marketing at Drips, a company offering a conversational texting platform that helps keep you from irritating your prospects. 


What we talked about:


- The power of conversational texting


- Partnering externally and internally


- The 5 pillars of partnership


This post includes highlights of our podcast interview with Jonathan Pogact, VP of Marketing at Drips


For the entire interview, you can listen to The B2B Revenue Executive Experience. If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, we suggest this link.

Building relationships, aniside of yourcompany is one of the biggest unlocks, in my opinion that you can do as amarketer, meaning partnering with Your Client Success Team to understand. Youknow what clients are saying about our products. What the feedback is, whatare we doing for them? You're, listening to the BTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives, traintheir sales and worketing teams to optimize growth, whether you're lookingfor techniques and strategies were tools and resources. You've come to theright place. Let's accelerate your growth in three two one: welcomeeveryone to the B to be revenue executive experience. I'm your hostChat Sanderson. Today we're talking about driving more effective marketingpartnerships not only with outside parters but internally as well, welltouch on conversational texting. What is it, how it impacts business and moreto help us? We have with this Jonathan Pogat pheb of marketing for drips aconversational texting platform. He also holds advisory board positionswith Ria University and the Direct Marketing Association. Jonathan, thankyou for taking time and welcome to the show yhat thanks for having me. So Inormally ask at the beginning a really odd question just for people to get you,but there was something that was in the packet of information that was providedto me that I just need to know more about. Maybe it's my addiction to lawand order. I don't know, but it said in there that you were an expert witnesson trial, help me how o Mi understand this yeah. That was definitely one of themore interesting experiences in my life, but I was working at an agency, dreckmarketing agency. In my mid twies and one of the clients I was working with ended up in a lawsuit. I can't divulgetoo much about that, but he asked if I would be kind of an expert witness totalk about just some facts: aroud response raid and some other questionsthat they had that they were going to ask me on the stand to help build theircase and it was pretty wild. So I don't know anyone else. It's been an expertwitness in a marketing kind of lawsuit, but so maybe this experience is uniquely myown, but so one thing about witnesses is that you don't want to be a paidwitness, because that could help influence. The information that youmight provide might be biased right. So I was an unpaid witness and for somebody in their mid twenties, itwas really exciting to be flown out. This case happened hat the La Countycourt. I was put up in a you know, condo in Santa Monica it was just awild fride. Wow whole thing ended up taking about fifteen minutes on thestand or so, but it was just a wild experience. I'd love to revisit myselfin my early is sitting on a stand at the La County court talking aboutmarketing, but that's a nice little Easter egg that I included my bio yeah.I know it. Definitely it definitely caul my attention for sure all right.So, let's start with you know, partnering across an organization withareas other than marketing, it can be sales product, client success. This isoften a challenge for organizations of all sizes, especially as they continueto grow right. Most organizazions have a tendency that in the rather silod andsegmented, so I'm curious to know how you, how you approached it, how ou howyou were able to come up with a solution that drives or an approachthat drives that type of alignment yeah for sure I mean this is this is achallenge everywhere, it's one that I haven't completely solved. I think it'ssomething that's always in progress right building relationships. Anside ofyour company is one of me biggest unlocks in my opinion that you can doas a marketer, meaning partnering with Your Client Success Team to understand.You know what clients are saying about our products. What the feedback is,what are we doing for them? What are some of those interesting use? Casesthat you could peel away from those relationships that your ams and CSMShave created already to help tell better stories, and it's not justbetter stories for marketing it's...

...better stories for sales, so likewisegetting feedback from them, understanding what their feedback is.Theyre kind of boots on the ground, so therethey're here in firsthand howprospects are reacting to our solution or messaging, even the use cases thatcame from customer an clent success, and it just goes all around it'simportant to have that feedback loop in place. It's super difficult to do justbecause we're all really busy, especially if you're part of a fastbrowing company like we are where we've got. You know, we've got a stuff twentyseven hours into a twenty four hour day. Somehow and it's been super valuable for me,something I'm still working on getting better at well and in addition todriving. You know that alignment and that understanding from marketingtoother organizations like sales and product there's also this oftenoverlooked. I think relationship and that's with the CFO. I mean sales,individuals and marketing individuals are often seen not by all CFOs but bymany as as a cost center. Although I don't know that I necessarly agree withthat, and sales professionals are often looked aut as overpaid and easily toreplace. So how do you develop that critical relationship with the with theCFO? I think Yo you really hit on it thereright. Nobody, no marketer, wants to be seen as a cost. Cenner now salespersonwants to be seen as overpaid right and the CFO has a lot of access to data,and I think understanding what data they're looking at is going to help yoube successful or not in some circumstances right, because I thinkone of the most important things is just getting on the same page in termsof what's important. You know what the expectation is. So while the CFO hasaccess to Lisarstas, R, rly or sale scorse dash boards Ar expendedjureswhat we spent, they might not be so up to speed on what we're doing on thebranding side, what dollars are being allocated towards general branding orincreasing our reach or with partnerships? What's long term versusshort term and just getting on the same page, there and I've learned so muchfrom our CFO already just in terms of like what what some of his prioritiesare and how we can align with them and, at the same time, just explaining Thowhat our priorities are and how we could just be on the same page and he'sbacked me up on things like conference contracts, which is something that Ihonestly wasn't thinking about during this covid period, where you know noconference has upt out language that allows a business to, I don't know,upout or seek relief during this time and it as something that he thought ofand he's been integral in that process and doing those negotiations for me andjust making better decisions together. I think it's been great, then it'sabout it's about. Having that conversations, bout, the transparencyright, making sure everybody's in alignment. That's what it is it's aboutdoing. You know it's about doing. What's right, not always you know who'sright, it's about getting alignment and starting the conversation. Sometimesthat's the hardest part fwe O ow without a deat ther bet more than afwcfis in my career, where that conversation was very difficult tostart yeah, so lhet's all right. So that's inside the company. Let's talkabout partnerships outside the company and in h in the Bio Information Centerwe call it hand to hand combat marketing. It reads like a slightlydifferent approach that I've seen before. So what do you? What do youmean by this? What does it look like how bout help our audience understandthat for sure, so, a little backaround on us we're about now we're about fouryear old company we grew out of startup and to scale upfairly quickly. We've been very grateful to do that in such a shortperiod of time and Y W part of our success formula has been and how wedevelop relationships with clients that Serveiur, ideal, client profile andsometimes those clients are those partners are much bigger than us whichwhich helps both sides. I s not always just about us taking advantage of theirbrand equity and their clients, it's...

...about them being able to take advantageof our agility or ability to execute quickly our ability to go to marketmuch faster without red tape. So it's been mutually beneficial, but we havewe kind of look at partnerships an in terms of like five pillars. One are oeven ready to have a partnership marketing function within your company. Do you have influence in your space?That's something you definitely have to have when jerks was started, we focusspecifically conversational texting. Sure we'll talk about. We have B anideal client profile, that's very specific, and you need to have somebodyin the marketing department and somebody that can own this and you haveto be a generating revenue in my opinion, and it's about identifying theright partners giving value first. Something super important in thisprocess is giving without expectation that could be hosting dinners for atconferences, inviting them to your client, dinners building case studiesusing kind of whatever your super power might be as an marketing organizationEtca. It's always about giving withthat expectation at first then it's aboutscaling, you know identifying who those partners are, but only picking e ahandful or less so that you coan make impact and then it's a badoperationalizing, which we define hes sting in your weight class. Right likeit would be amazing for us to partner quote unquote with with Google. Butwhat do we mean? A Google right be a little bit difficult to make thatargument right and just have an alignment across theboard. I think thoses. I think there are five fantastic. You know pillars.The partnership marketing is is a challenge for many individuals, somecan't I don't somewhere Asius. I don't think I've ever really been able towrap ther hats around it. Quite honestly, but you did mention theconversational texting and I have to ask, I know texting and for I don't know, ifthat's fortunate or unfortunately, but what is conversational texting, helpthe audience understand what it is: How's it work and and specifically in abusiness environment. How should you use it effectively without crossingsome unknown line? Yeah, of course, conversational texings, all abouthelping brands, have conversations with their prospects and customers when itmatters to them at a time where brands have questions and a time whereprospects are looking for answers, it's about meeting them in the middle withwhat we call like Asynchranis one to one humanized till use Somemari quotestheir conversations that feel like you're, having a conversation directlywith an individual in a way that Canin go on for sometimes hours days andweeks, all wof the intention of getting them back on the phone. So it's alwaysabout at least for us. It's always about somebody that showed intent,meaning somebody went on to an insurance COMPANI's website. They fellthat a quote for insurance and they've opted in. This is really important.They've consented to receiving a call and a text from that organization. Soit's not a surprise now. The problem is and part of the reason why we exist isthat those organizations- let's just call it yesterday, what they would do,is they'd call you at a time when it's not convenient for you when it's mostconvenient to them. From a number you don't recognize and that typically results in that theconsumer or prospect not answering that phone call and ignoring geurof phonecalls right. Definitely so we just found a better way to do it and it'snot easy either we do this. We hold hundreds we'e held hundreds of millionsof conversations to date. We understand intent and dispositioning so that we'recontinuing conversations with consumers that want to continue thoseconversations and we're stopping conversations immediately for thosethat prefer to have them another channel. So it's something that we've we've beenperfecting over time that is really...

...taking hold, not only just did brandstrying to reach their prospects, but also from the customer experience idewhen I think there's a really important point that you that you touche on thereand that's the idea of consent o opting in especially with all of the theprivacy laws. You know the California Consumer Privacy Protection Act, I meanit started with Gdpo was probably the first biggest one that was known, but Ithink last time I checked overe, the eighteen or nineteen states that haddifferent levels of consumer privacy. Legislation in play, and so thatconcept of I consented to this I've set up my marketing my experience with myindividual, so that there is at some point someplace where they have toconsent to this gets over. What I think a lot of people have an initialreaction to which is texting someone and they have a tendency to think it'stexting, someone without their permission, because then it feelsalmost invasive exactly right, like we don't want to recreate the cold call toEit'scold text. It's not what we're looking to do. But but there are, youknow there are bad actors all over the place, right, theire, email, marketing,right, there's kind of spammers. There used to be a lot worse than it is today.You know, email service providers have found a way to curate those inboxes orin boxes. There's can spam if you have Gmail Thet, basically, sort Yourena foryou igh and the same things happening with the telephone providers are kindof curating the messages and calls that you receive and don't receive. You've,probably, and I'm sure some of your listeners have seen the calls that havecome in that'l, that'll, say spam likely on my phone after t mobile, Idon't even get calls and some of them are legit too. Unless I look into myresens, I don't get any notification that if somebody tried to call me,depending on when they're calling it's it's pretty wild, so we're not tryingto create the cold call for text. This is all about people. It's all aboutconsumer preference. It's all about communicating in a channel, that's mostconvenient to them at a time when it's most convenient to them, which I thinkis super important. Well, it's and it's the name of the game. These days. RightI mean everybody, has Amazon, prime or Netflix, or all of these BTCexperiences which give them what they want when they want ad how they want itwhere they want it on their terms and those expectations are carrying overinto the be tobe space. People want the same thing, so companies have to get alittle bit more creative in the ways that ay're going to engage and alsonavigate a con, completely changing and evolving regulatory environment. At thesame time, you really have the nail on the head: it's a conversation that I'vebeen having with our HEADOF sales recently and it's all about givingcontrol back to the customer because they have to like that. I like thatthey do have choices. They do they ar they definitely do, and so have you notthat I want to call anybody any company or bad actor out, but could youillustrate without throwing anybody oner the bus, an example of where youmaybe seein, texting or or an attempt a conversational texting attempted thatdidn't have the desired outcome? So I think that push SMS has its place. Anhere's AL defined push esms, it's the SMS message that you receive from ashort code phone number like onto three four five and from a brand. That'slooking to King tof blast the message to you. I think a lot of those are veryineffective. I've seen, I think, there's a place fom him right with.Let's use a company that nobody's heard of before Chipole, okay, so so chipole sends me text all the timeand it's cypically offer based right and I might receive that offer. Butmost of the time I have more questions right. It's received fifty percent offon Halloween if you wear a costume, great bdoes that apply to Wuakamoliedos. This apply to your softdripe banks, or maybe I just want to say thanks for theoffer and if I say thanks typically whathiou get back from them is a autoresponse. That reads: I'm sorry, I...

...didn't quite understand that towopd out,please hed, stop please et memove, please type in stop at remove. So thereare lots of moments like that, and probably millions of examples wherebrands are really missing out on an opportunity to have a conversation withtheir customers and the customers that are reaching back out are going to beyour best customers and right now, you're, not giving yourself anopportunity to do that unless you're doing something like we're doing withconversational texting. That's really. The key missing moment is going fromthis push notification strategy to let's really understand what ourcustomers are looking to, rechieve, let's listen to them and let's rewardthem for engaging with us, yeah and so you've been doing you four years. Yousaid Youe Bean atist. Do you have an example of a client success story thatyou can share with the Audience Yep, so I'd say one of our better wellknown ones is the pretty mutual and their use. Caseis super interestingright there in this space of insurance, where size matters right, scale,matters and we help them do something very different than some other othercompetitors are doing and the way that they're, following up with prospectsthat are looking to sign up with them for auto or home insurance. So I thinkthat's one of our biggest ewse cases, one of our biggest brands tha thatpeopleil instantly recognize. Another great use case for us is on the homeservices side with a company called three day blinds. They do kind of madeto order hand, measured custom, blinds for your home and it's an involvedprocess and you get an amazing quality product as a result of it, but there'smany stages within that process where a conversation is necessary and I think alot of companies can learn through this just like insurance to where you'veinquired about their service right, you might have filled at a lead form. Thenyou need to schedule an appointment. Then you might need to confirm thatappointment. Then you might need to follow up with that employment. Whenthe appointment happens in tr there's a quote, then there's TA cell there'sthere's so many steps in a sales process where having that conversationcould be the difference between attrition and gatting a customer, butthose are two of our biggest, I would say, are two of many of our successstories that I think a lot of companies can relate with and so tell us a littlebit more about drips. Is this is conversational texting, kind of the themeet potatoes or is theire portfolio of offering you know? How did the companycome about? What's the story there yeah the storyes all about finding away to communicate with consumers at scale in a way that helps brands andall huse air quotes again seem small right. So, when you're having aconversation with Jonathan at the Insurance Company, that's doingconversational texting as a consumer, you feel heard you're able to respondyou're able to hold long conversations over a period of time and and when wecame about four years ago, there weren't any companies doing it likethis. They were doing those chipotle text messages using emails, cold calling is still a thing. Mostcompanies are using a call center that have a long kind of complex sale cycleto engage with consumers and people. H E just had enough with picking up thephone or being interrupted, having having their time stolen from that UST.What happens when you answer a phone call from a number? You don't recognize,er, literally stealing your time away and it's the most valuable asset thatwe have. So that's why we were bored. Conversational texing is a categorythat we created that were doubling down on we're super hyperfocused on thesetypes of programs and really there's so much opportunity out there to do betterby consumers by by implementing this strategy yeah, I love it and it is it'sall about being respectful. In my opinion, bulls, not a respect, respectfor the individual respect for fourself respect for the fact that time is themost valuable asset that we have all right. Let's Change Direction, er alittle bit. I ask all of our guess two standard questions, the end ofeachinterview, the first ICIBILY as a VP marketing. That makes you prospect forvery many sales professionals out there,...

I'm sure you're getting pinged all thetime. I'm always curious to understand when somebody doesn't have a referralinto you and somebody doesn't have that trusted path. That makes you you knowjust open up time on your counter. What is the most effective way for someoneto you know peak. Your curiosity demonstrate the credibility and earnthe right to get some time to have a conversation with you about potentialsolutions and maybe you'll provide the problems. You might have yeah it's agreat question, interestingly enough, for the last few months, the amount of solicitations that I'vereceived have drastically reduced. I don't know if my inbox is just gettingbetter with filtering that I don't really know what it is honestly,but Hava Reciv been receiving as many as I used to, but I will say, though, as a marketer you're you're reallyintune, when you're getting sold to right. Think you really you canunderstand where they're coming from and sometimes that's good and sometimesit's bad. So what I'll say is when the companies or the sales individuals thatare successful when they get through to me it's because they've done theirhomework, sothey've gone A. I would say two stepsbeyond just your general context. Right they've gone a little bit further thanjust going to my like than profile and saying: Hey Jonathan looks like youhave a long commute to work. I D love to talk to you about. You know myproduct and service here. The ones that have gotten through have done a littlebit of homework. It might have been a website audit where they did. Theypulled a report based on the amount of keywords that our websites ranking foror they did an audit of our social media, or they did some research on ourindustry to understand where there might be more opportunity, but the netof it is is that they did a little bit of homework to get my attention to thepoint where it's almost irresistible to respond like a half debts like. Oh, yougot me like here's, a report of how yourwebsites performing compared to these two companies and ther the right twocompanies- and I can okay Yeu- got me right or it's hey. Do you wish you could be doingbetter in this area of your business like? I can tell that you know. There'ssome inconsistencies here, based on what I'm seeing right and I go yes or yeah. If they'd done that and and by the way,that's not a huge 'm, not looking for free work right, they just Lik wintthat little extra mile they ran me through a little auditing system. TheyI'm sure they standardize those things on their end. They know what they'redoing. That's how you get through. I think you go a little bit beyondcontext, two degrees beyond contaxt into giving something of value. I thinkthats what it comes down to love it all right and so last question called ouracceleration insight. There was one thing you could tell: Sales, marketingor professional services piece people, one piece of advice: You could give Hemthat you believe would help them it their targets or exceed them. Whatwould it be? And why, who it's a good one, I would say, do thework and ask for help when you need it, Ias, a term that I think about insidemy head. I don't know if it's widely used, but there's a you, don't always need to be the heroin your organization. Right. I think, there's there's something to be saidabout team. It's actually one of our core values and it's I can't, but wecan- and I think that applies across the business. I Mane successful salesmarketing operations, acount people- I think they can all benefit fromthinking about how the team can help them, reach their goals and even ifyou're salesperson right, you've got your own quota right, but you're notalone, there's going to be other people that want the same thing: High Degree of alignment across thecompany. If you're working for a good company, there's Goingna be people thatwant to help you out. I want to help everybody win. If I can, if I have asuperpower in my tool belt that can help close the next deal. Andsure, thesuccess of the next QBR help run a report that I know how to right runthat they don't whatever it might be. I'm Goingto do it just because I knowhow much that means to me when somebody...

...goes out of their way to help me outwith Ha goal. So again, it's one of those things. Ithink that are easier said than done, but incredibly valuable once you unlockit yeah absolutely Jonathan vilisters interested in talking more about thesetopics. Talking about drips or anything like that. Where would you like us tosend them? You cound check me out on Linkdon Jonathan Poget Pog Act. You canalso check out our NEWLYAV launched website at chipscom. Rela Redesignwebsite read as I'm brand new es brand excellent. I can't thank you for takingthe time to be on the show. Today it's been an absolute pleasure exad. Thiswas great all right, everybody that does of this episode. You know thedrill be to be revizeccom episode with Sharei with friends. Family coworkerslike if jeered, leave us review on itunes. Until next time we have vayselling associates with all nothing, but the greatest success you've been listening to the btobrevenue executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show in Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you somuch for listening until next time.

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