The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 3 years ago

Barbara Trautlein on Improving Change Intelligence

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The world is continually going through a great deal of transformations. Whether these are digital transformations or sales transformations, they all mean the same thing: change has become the norm whether you like it or not. 

While some organizations change to deliver great results, many of them fail and in worst case scenarios harm organizations and individuals involved. We sat down with Barbara Trautlein , author of Change Intelligence, to discuss why organizations struggle with change and the role that leadership plays.

You are listening to the BDB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast dedicated to help with the executives train their sales andmarketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or toolsand resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth inthree, two, one. Welcome everyone to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. So today we're going to get alittle heavier than lately, a little deeper into a topic that many executives andsales leaders wrestle with consistently. A lot of sales professionals, I know,hate this word, but the fact of the matter is the world is fullof change and we're all hearing about, quote unquote, and yes, I'mdoing the air quotes, transformation initiatives their great deal of press lately, greatdeal of Focus. I know several organizations that are going through them. However, if you look at all the types of transformation and change, from digitaltransformation to sales transformation organizational transformation, they all really mean the same thing.Changes become the norm whether you like it or not, and while some organizationsdeliver great results, many of them fail and, in worse cases, actuallyharm organizations and the individuals involved in these initiatives. So, to tackle thetopic with us today, I like to welcome Dr Barbara Trowel and a twentyyear veteran in the change or transformation space, author of the Book Change Intelligence,a principle with change catalysts and creator of the Cq Change Intelligence System.It's a mouthful, but Barbara, welcome to the show and thank you fortaking the time. Thanks so much for having me. Chad by everybody.All right, so lately it's all over the press. All of people aretalking about it day in and day out and we're hearing a lot of youknow, two topics we're going to focus on. So there's these different typesof intelligence, and you and I were talking before we hit recorded about technicalintelligence, that jet blow. Came up with two emotional intelligence and, ofcourse IQ, and now change intelligence or C Q, and how transformation initiatives, or were large skillonesship, should happen and why they fail. So forsome contacts. Let's get started with some background on how did you decide tomake change, an area that most people fear, the focus of your ofyour career. Yeah, so, great question, and I actually started inthis business almost thirty years ago now. I started in the mid S andfor those of your listeners as old as I am, you might remember thatin the mid S, where I was living and working, in the Midwestthe United States, we're actually called the rust belt and we're called the rustbelt because our lunch was getting eaten by far and competition, especially industry.Yeah, so I was working in as part of a consulting team. Iwas twenty five years old and I was working part of a consulting team thatwas working with, you know, some automotive plants and their suppliers to helpthem, you know, change, to remain competitive but keep the doors open, and so so I'll never forget my first thing on the job. Asyou know, twenty five year old woman in a steel mill, surrounded byall men, and they were all twenty or thirty years older than me,maybe forty. They'd all worked in the mill their whole careers. And Istand up and I introduced myself when I said, you know, we're goingto partner together and we're going to transform you guys to high performance, totalquality and self managed teams and their guy from the back of the room standsup, becomes right to the front of the room and he says we're steelworkers and we don't listen to girls. So I guess just walking in theroom I was a change for them right, a paradigm shift, as we usedto say back in the day. And and yeah, we did partnertogether for two years and they return to solvency and and you know then.So pretty much my whole career has been helping people, teams and organizations leadchange. Excellent. So we all know many of these change initiatives have atendency to fail. Most of us wouldn't like to hear that or admit that, but I wouldn't be surprised if many of our listeners hadn't been part ofI know I have been or affected by...

...these types of inities, but I'dlove to get your perspective, with your experience, on why is it thatthese initiatives fail? Yeah, exactly, and that's the question I asked myselfabout seven or eight years ago when I went down the path of developing themouthful that is the q system. And and so I sat back and Isaid, yeah, you know, there was research that John Cotter, andit's called leggs at Harvard did when I was first getting into the business andthe S and early s, that that came up with a statistic that seventypercent are more of major organizational changes fail. So those are things like, youknow, changing your company sales approach or implementing a new crm system ormerger acquisition or new product launch, your expansion. Seventy percent fail. Andthen about again a decade ago, just before I was starting to write mybook and came up with Change Intelligence. They Mackenzie and consulting, the globalconsulting firm, did a similar study and came out with a similar statistics.So in the span of about twenty years we had it moved the needle inour ability to design and implement change. That sticks. So I sat backand I said, you know, why is that? And at that pointI had been, you know, working with many different organizations in different industriesto do pretty much two things. To manage change and it's to develop leadershipcapability. And so, considering this huge gap and failure rate that we had, I set back and I said, well, maybe it's a combination ofmanaging change and Developing Leaders Aka leading change, developing the capacity to not just managechange and not just develop our overall leadership skills, but really build ourskills and leading change. And so I decided that, yeah, what weneed is to be smarter about leading change, any change, intelligence, and Cqwas born. And so, all right, so it sounds like,you know, you see back, you think about it, it sounds likemost of the failures, or a lot of the failures, come from people'sinability to manage it rather than the process or approach they choose to take.Now, that may not necessarily be a popular perspective for people that have ledfailed initiatives, but when did you start realizing that people were causing the majorityof failures instead of process? was there a light bulb moment, an epiphany? Yeah, absolutely. So our to your point when, if you lookat the literature on managing change, the large bulk of it focuses on overcomingresistance to change, overcoming resistance to change. So what is the focus of that? The focus is on doing something to other people or against them,or even in spite of them. Right, it's, you know, we're nottrying to manage the change will lead the change or trying to change thepeople, do something to the people. And so you know, and youknow. What can we control, though? What can we control? We cancontrol ourselves, right, only ourselves. We can't force change on others,anymore than we could, you know, you know, force them to forcethem to change. We can influence them, we can partner with them, but we can't force them. So, if the only thing we can controlas ourselves, we can't control other people, then what can we do? Well, we can turn the mirror back on ourselves. And my viewis that so awten. It looks like resist out there in other people isa lack of change leader, you know, ability to really, you know,encourage people to get it to one and and be able to do it, in other words, and appart tune. Need to look at ourselves and dosomething differently as change leaders. So this is where CQ comes into play, right. So, so help our audience understand how CQ is different fromIq or Eq? Sure, absolutely so. You know, IQ is your rawemotional intelligence, right, and it's something you're born with and it's actuallypretty challenging to really impact a lot after your early years. Right. Eq, on the other hand, is your emotional intelligence and it's all about howwhere you are your own emotions and what triggers you emotionally and how you werewhere you are of others emotions and use that knowledge to build effective relationships.So it is a skill that Eq is a skill that we can build right. We can increase our awareness, we...

...can increase our ability to, youknow, control ourselves, manage our behaviors, and we can also increase our abilityto be more sensitive to other people's emotions and use that information of buildrelationships with them. So, very similarly, change intelligence is the awareness of ourstyle of leading change, how we ly change, and then the abilityto adapt our style so we could be more effective. Because, again,what can we control? Only ourselves. So that's how it's an intelligence.It's being more intelligent about how we are, how we are leading to change.So it sounds like, and correct if I'm wrong, it sounds likedefinitely an increased mindfulness, right, and the level of authenticity and vulnerability atan executive or leadership level. That I mean. I I've been around bitaround the block to so we're in the same age bracket and I've had executiveswhere, if you were to say those words authenticity of vulnerability. If theyweren't screaming at you to get out of the room, then the glance yougot was typically sending out of the room. But it has become increasingly more important. So from your perspective, why has that ability to, and it'syour quote, engage the hearts and equip the hands become so critical today?Yeah, absolutely so. You know, it's interesting because so many of theyou know, I I work with leaders at all levels, from the frontline to the sea suite, and people think, you know, some peoplethink, Oh, I'm not a change leader because I don't have that youknow, sea sweet title or director title or Vice President title in my inmy description right, my job. However, I know that even at the verytop of the house there's a lot of figure out there, there's alot of fear, there's a lot of imposter syndrome that wow, yeah,that I got here right and I've been successful my entire career, but Idon't know what to do now. I don't know what to lead, howto lead my organization through this next big thing, and so that can sometimes, you know, mask as the kind of behaviors that you're talking about.Right, and so I think that'll you know, Marshall Goldsmith wrote this greatbook. What got you here won't get you there, you know. AndYeah, and it's all about the fact that we need to continue to buildour capacity to, you know, lead change, lead people, you know, leadership in general, to continue to deal with increasing challenges. So soyou're absolutely right that it can. You know, some people can take takeon Bards to that. And yet we know that the most effective leaders andthe most reflective, you know, the ones who actually kind of, youknow, look at their successes and also look at where they've stumbled and usethem as fodder for continual learning. So so, yeah, so that andso anyway, that that's that's what I would say to that. When youmentioned equipping the hands and engaging the heart, well, maybe it's a good timeto step back and talk about what the change styles of leading change are, because I think that it helped with the conversation about focusing on senior leaders. That help. Okay. So so what change intelligence is? My definition, it's the awareness of your style of leading change in the ability to adaptit so you can be more effective across people and situations. Right, youcan be more authetic, more transparent, all that good stuff you talk about. So so what I say, and this might be interesting for your listenersto think about, they can kind of self diagnose their style leading change,and so I've distinguished that there are three styles. Some leaders lead from theheart, so when they lead they focus on the people that are impacted bythe change. So they spend a lot of time engaging with people, communicating, building teams and Building Trust. Right. Then the other second style is leadingfrom the head. Folks who lead from the head, they focus onthe vision, the strategy, the big picture, the future, visionary andstrategic leaders. Then the third styles, leading from the hands. Those folkslike to figure out how to get from here to they're they're very planful,efficient, tactical, detail pointed right. So all of just like all ofus, have a head, you know,...

...a hard and most of us havetwo hands. We all can and do engage in all those kind ofbehaviors, but most of us tend to have a preference and right. Andso I have a research database that shows pretty clearly that folks at the topof the organization, the higher uppy goal, the more likely it is that youlead change from the head right, which makes sense because that's kind ofthe executive job, leading the organization. However, that's a strength, butany strength overdone is not so much a strength anymore. Right. And sosometimes executives or people who lead primarily from the head, they can they're veryexcited about the change right basic, they're thinking about it, but and they'reon the bus and the buses leaving the station. But they look around andthey look behind him and nobody's on the bus right. So, so that'swhy I say that it's very beneficial for, you know, executives, for seniorleaders, to engage the heart, to remember that you need to dealwith people, that not everybody's going to be excited as you and that youneed to engage the heart. You need to connect the change with people's emotions, understand their fears and concerns. You need to customize your communications to reallyconnect with people instead of one size fits off, fits on messaging. Andwhen I say equipped the hands is because that's the least prevalence style anyway,at any level, is hands oring to type of change leadership and that's onereason I think we have the high failure rate of change, because a leadermight be charismatic and get people on the bus, but a lot of timesthe bus derails because people don't have the plan in the process and the tools, or there's berries in the organization preventing good people from behaving consistently with thechange. So that's why I say that leaders. You know, again,we might have a great vision, might have a great mission, that changemight make a hack of a lot of sense, but if we're not engagingthe heart, getting people on board, and if we're not equipping the handshelping him get from here to there, then we're not going to have successfulchange. Okay. And so, in order for for people to increase theirCQ right, you have to know where you are in order to know whereyou want to go. So you've developed a CQ assessment. You tell memore about that, how it works and and what you've learned analyzing the data? Sure, absolutely so. You know, many of your listeners are probably familiarwith the disc or the Myers Briggs or the strength finders and so anda lot of people are assessment out and I'm an organizational psychologist, so Iuse those those tools all the time myself. But why created the CQ assessment isto laser focus on leading change right as opposed to other aspects of yourleadership style, your work style. So it's an online assessment. It aches, you know, just about fifteen minutes to complete. It's about twenty itemsand it results in a report about, you know, how you lead fromthe head, hand. Hands are heart. And so, to your point,I do have a database of several thousand change leaders and it is veryinteresting. I mean what the data shows. I talk briefly about the differences byorganizational level, but the prevalence of the change leader style, I thinkis very interesting. The data shows that slightly more people lead from the heartthan from the head, but it's very close. About forty percent in eachcategory. About forty two percent from the heart. That's the people's side,a change about forty percent from the head, the vision, the strategy, thesmallest percentage, only about eighteen percent lead from the hands. And sopeople who lead from the hands. That's what's all about, the implementation,the sustainability, and I think that's one of the big reasons for the highfailure rate to change is that, you know, strategy is sexy right,and Oh we know so much about the bottom line benefits of it, ofengagement, right from productivity, customer service, retention, you know, Gallop andyou know, we know a lot of about research about engagement. Sowe know we need the heart, we know we need that head. However, what gets what's undervalued right and downplayed and neglected and seen as tactical right, is the leading from the hands,...

...is the implementing and the making changestick. Everybody wants to think big thoughts. Nobody actually wants to do the workexactly. That's right, as you're right, and the people who aredoers right, are looked at right, as you know, implementers, notinitiators, right, you know, team players, and that team leaders,and so so, yeah, I think there's a lot of layers to thatonion, but I do think that those preferences that people have in those stereotypeshas, you know, is part of the reason for, you know,our failures as change leaders sometimes. And so do you in that day todo you see differences in Cq by region or culture, geography, or maybedifferences across the silos of an organization, say sales versus offs versus finance?Yes, definitely. And if people are interested in slicing the nicing the datain different ways and the research results. You know, they can feel freeto get in touch with me. I have lots of research reports, butjust big picture wise in terms of around the world, that really surprised me. But one of the most interesting differences, I think, is that there areno significant differences, that I found those thus far in the prevalence ofthe styles and different regions of the world. Oh wait, so you mean peopleare people, are people. That's right here all the time and themedia and yes, that people are people, are people, and so I thinkthat's very edifying in some ways and it's also consistent with some research thatpeople who study organizational culture come up with. That really what that organizational culture.So kind of the norms inside your organization trump regional culture, which Ithink is very interesting thing, and the workplay. That's right. People alwaysfind those results hard to believe. Now what I will say is that youknow so, for example, one of my after the you know, allthe plant closings and the economic challenges of the s and the S, Istarted getting more and more involved in startup organization, some new facility startups,and when steel mill I help start up was a Japanese US joint benchure andthe management in the Union wanted to start it up with a self managed teamapproach, and I tell you that the perception of what a team should beby the American owners and versus by the Japanese owners were very, very different. So I think that while the prevalence of leading from the head, hardhands, focusing on the people, perfect purpose or process might be similar indifferent regions around the world quantitatively in terms of how they answer the assessment,I think the behaviors, qualitatively that they engage in right, what it meansto lead from the heart in Japan versus in America, right versus in Europeversus in Africa, might be different. So isn't that like a cultural overlay? So I mean you've got people, are people, so you've got heart, heads and hands and and it sounds like that's pretty significant, but theimplementation, the realization of that goes through a cultural filter. Would that befair to say? That's my guess. That's my guess and I actually haveone thing that the first thing people asked me when the assessment came out ofmy book was published was can we get certified in this? So we can, you know, use it on our organ Asians and what our clients?And so now I have there are C Q certified change agents in thirteen differentcountries and that's one of the things that we're working on is really looking atthe answer to that question. So I'm excited to see how things are emerging. But yeah, definitely that, you know, I'm we're seeing some interesting, interesting differences. So I like how you said that cultural overlay. Yeah, I mean we see it a lot. I spent a lot of time doing, you know, CX customer experienced design. So how do you createa frictionless experience combined physical and digital for an optimized experience for consumers or beto be and we spent a lot of years doing it and it was interestingto see that while, much like you have found, people are people arepeople, the the realization of perception of reality as a result of the culturaloverlay changes their perception of different elements in that experience. So something that Americanmay find frictionless, you know someone from a pack would just absolutely they wouldstop them in their tracks, and so...

...that sensitivity is something that has alwaysfascinated me. Now absolutely, and just to your point, you know onebit of coaching that I give a lot of times when I'm working with frontlineleaders or middle management is that the most important change leadership competency is leadership courage. Sometimes you have to give that upward feedback that you know there are thingsthat the executives are doing or not doing that standing in the way of asuccessful initiative. Right, either it's being under resourced or this final two shipisn't strong, or people aren't seeing the senior leaders walking the talk, whateverit is, it's important to give that feedback because what you see depends onwhen you sit right and and and the United States and Europe. Those messagesare well received in Asia. That's a challenging message to hear, right.It's it's not considered appropriate in every organization, right, you know, take youknow, Japan for example, to to provide that kind of feedback upward, and so that is a cultural prescription that, to your point, wouldcreate friction, shall we say, different ways to be able to get thatjob done. So so I like how you said that. So let's getspecific in terms of evolving one CQ, and I'm not, you know,I don't want you to give away all of the whole of the magic.But if there were three things an executive or a change leader could start doingtoday to improve their Cq, what would they be and why? Yeah,so again, what's the definition of change intelligence? It's the awareness of onestyle leading change in the ability to adapt it. So I would definitely startwith awareness. Obviously you could take the assessment and yet oftentime you can lookat your people that you're leading through change to get pretty good insights about whatyour style might be and what some of the gaps are blind spots might be. So, for example, if you see that your people are, youknow, kind of afraid right or or, you know, the there's resistance thatseems like it comes from more the emotional space right, then that's theopportunity potentially for you as a change leader to build some skill in engaging theheart, to communicate and connect with people, to try to unearth their fears andtheir concerns and try to address them. Sometimes what we see instead is that, you know, people are working really hard and they're, you know, there are you know they're attempting to, you know, get on board,but they just their efforts in misplace. They're just not achieving the goal,and so maybe they need more clarity about what the goal is. Maybeit's very clear to you where we're going, but maybe not so much your people. So you need more of that, you know, working around the thevision and strata and the mission and the you know, objective outcomes forthe change. And maybe, though, they're like, they're paralyzed, they'redeer in the headlights. They just can't get UN stuck in into effective action. Well, maybe they need more hands, maybe they need a plan and aprocess, maybe they need more tools or more training, or maybe they'vehad a one off training, but they need more coaching. And sometimes there'sbarrier stating in the way of good people behaving consistently with the change. So, for example, there could be a compensation system or communication system or anoperation system that is, you know, consistent with the old way of doingthings but preventing people from working towards the new. So that's what I wouldsay. I would say is, you know, attempt to become more aware, through self reflection and through other observation, about your style and what your strengthmight be and what your gaps might be, and then work to closethose gaps. Okay, so when we look at change initiatives that you obviouslyhave to have the awareness, right awareness and a what you're good at,where you're not figure outs fill the gaps, as you were saying. But there'salso different types of change initiatives or there's ones that are completely internally focusedand then there's kind of a hybrid where, like, for example, sales transformation. I have a wholeheartedly believe you cannot do sales transformation in just thesilo of sales right. You have to go across silo inside an organization,get alignment with marketing, but, more importantly, you also have to includekind of outside influences, so customers.

You could have vastly different people respondingto different types of change leadership, internally, for versus externally, working with customersversus internal employees. So are there things that you have seen or recommendationsfor how to manage that hybrid or how to better determine how to mix thosetypes of change leadership to make things like that effective? Yeah, absolutely so. The most effective change leaders adapt their style continuously, right, so theycan be optimally effective for the audience that they're working with, the type ofchange initiative, the stage that you're in and you know basically what you're talkingabout is influencing without authority, right, whether it's across organizational silos, whetherit's outside your organization. So I think the number one thing to do thereis to build a relationship. As I always say, you know, startwith the heart and relationships get results. So, as we know in sales, right, you know that the opportunities to build that relationship put deposits inyour emotional bank account with other people, right, because when it comes tochange, changes hard and you're going to have to make a withdrawal. RSo, so when you know so, talk about a return on your investment. The more you can invest in building relationships up down, across inside andoutside the organization. So people understand that what your intent is, right,even though sometimes your impact on them might not be ultimately positive. Right,if they can understand that you have positive intent, that you are simultaneously tryingto optimize both their positive outcome as well as the change goals, then they'llbe a lot more likely to partner with you towards them. Excellent, excellent, a right. Let's change the directions just a little bit here. Iask all of our guests kind of two standard questions towards the end of eachinterview. The first is simply in sales parlance, as a leader of anorganization yourself, that makes you a target or, in the politically correct world, a prospect. And so when sales people or anybody's trying to get infront of you because I think they have something that you know they want tosell you or a solution that will help you, how does somebody best getyour attention and build credibility when there is no other existing relationship? Yeah,absolutely well, I want to know that somebody you know cares about me,has done some research about me, understands my world right, and that doesn'thave to be me personally, but that means the business that I'm in right. And so I want to understand that you have some clue about out eightpoint right and my aspirations, and that I you have some thoughts. Right, you're not going to waste my time. So I so I feel that Ifeel that in you. Right again, that old dad is that it doesn'tyou know, people aren't going to remember what you say, they're goingto remember about how they made you feel. Right. So I want, Iwant to feel some sense of that and then I want to know thatyou're not wasting my time, that you have some tangible ideas about how youcan help me serve my clients better or at least, you know, reducemy the pain of my administrative burden within my so that's what I want toknow. I want to feel that connection and that's that's another thing getting backto. You know, in a way people in my field, in thechange management field, we're all salesman. It's all about selling, right,it's all about selling the change, trying to get people on board selling thechange. And then when we talk about that, we we talked about thefact that it's all about sales. And so the bottom line is that howcan you again, that's not to overstate something, that that sounds right,but you know what is? What is that win win, right, youknow, that relationships that get results. And so how can we focus onagain? Some people think that how people change psychologically is that they learn afact. Right, they learn a fact or they see an analysis, right, or some data that helps them think differently. So therefore they change.So it's kind of like John cotter talks about this, that you think,you analyze, you think and then you change. In fact, what makespeople change is that they see a new...

...possibility and that makes them feel differentlyand then they change. Right. So really, while facts and figures anddata and thinking is important, the intellectual aspect of change, the cognitive aspect, in fact, what really causes behavior change right, and that could bemoving forward with a new change initiative, it could be moving forward with anew sales partner. Right in a sales process. It's all about feeling,you know, seeing something, seeing a possibility, feeling it, and thenone changes. Yeah, we teach it's funny, we teach it our classesthat, you know, people make emotional buying decisions and then justify it withlogic. And there's all that research out there. I'm drawn up like onwho did it, but there's the study of people who had had I thinkwas the Amygdala damage and they no longer literally were registering emotions and you couldn'ttell until you ask them to make a decision as simple as which direction shouldwe go, or which shoe should you put on first? They just hadno ability to make decisions. So that emotional connection is is critical. SoI'm glad to hear you say that so last question. We call it ouracceleration insight. If there's one thing you could tell a sales, marketing professionalservices person, one piece of advice you could give them that, if theytook it in, actually listen to an applied it tomorrow morning, would makethem more successful. What would it be and why? Well, again,I don't know that this is going to be brand new for your audience,but as a psychologist, as a change leadership professional, I can say itto enough. Start with the heart relationships get results right. Investing in therelationship is going to be an investment that's going to make a return on yourinvestment much more so than most other activities that you might engage in. Perfect, Barbara. For listeners interested in talking more about the topics, getting accessto the data, looking at some of those reports you got touching on anythingwe talked about today. What's the best way to get in contact with you? Sure, just go to my website, change catalysts, with an s atthe endcom, and you can find all kinds of resources you can download. There's a way to contact me there. You can check out two free chaptersin my book. So lots of great resources. Awesome, Barbara.I can't think you know if it's taking the time day. Has Been Greathaving you on the show. Thanks so much chat. Appreciate it. Byfor now. All right, everyone that does it for this episode, pleasecheck us out a be to be REV execcom. Share the episode with friends, Families Co workers. If you like what you here, please shoot mean email. Send us a review online. Do something on itunes or Android,whatever it is, right as of you. We do pay attention ofthat stuff so we know what type of guests to bring on. Until nexttime, we have value prime solutions with you all. Nothing but the greatestsuccess. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure thatyou never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes for your favoritepodcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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