The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Barb Giamanco on Improving the Sales Experience

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Everyone is familiar with the phrase “customer experience.” But what about the experiences a customer has with a sale before signing on the dotted line?

We spoke with Barb Giamanco, author of The New Handshake: Sales Meets Social Media and one of the most recognized thought leaders in sales about what makes a good sales experience and how salespeople need to invest in themselves to find success.

You're listening to the BB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're going to be talking about sales experience, so to help us do that, we have with US Barbara of GIAMACO. Unless you've been living in a bell jar, you know who Barbara is, so I'm not going to try and murder her. Linkedin profile and accomplishments, she's definitely one of the most recognized sales thought leaders out there. I'm a big fan of her podcast as well. Barbara, I want to thank you for taking time to be on the show today. Absolutely, Chad. Thank you so much, and you're welcome to call me barb. Okay, Barbar it is. So we like to start by asking guests kind of off the wall question. If you weren't working with sales professionals today, what would you be doing? What are you passionate about outside of sales. Well, that is easy because my side passion is I am an avid international traveler, foody, lover of wine and, as a matter of fact, I keep you know, I run a blog in a site called a traveling food ECOM. That is my side passion and I'm always is, you know, out checking out the latest and greatest and good food anywhere in the US or internationally and writing about it. So my next act, Chad, quite honestly, is that's going to be my main business. Oh Nice. So there's a transition plan, there is a plan. I'd really love to do that full time. It's it's just such a joy for me to be able to we had a big show here in Atlanta about a month ago and all these chefs were in and all these people who provide equipment to restaurants whatever, and it was so cool because I do have a company name registered called black and Tan media, and so that's how I registered for the for the conference, and it was so cool. You know, you walk up to the booth I was like, Oh, could I interview you? You know, I was doing a little mini podcasts and interviewing them to get, you know, blog posts and I just absolutely love it, and so that is going to be the next thing. I can take everything I know and love about sales and social media and apply that to building this this other business. Excellent. So was there a favorite place that you've traveled to that you that just seems to stand above all the rest? Well, I love them all, and probably the one that really stands out currently is last year in May, following speaking at the top sales world event and then spending time in London, my good friend Joanne Black and I went off to St Petersburg, Russia, for five days and that was off the hook most. I mean one of the most beautiful cities I think I've ever seen, and I'm a lover of art and architecture and all of that, and so it's fantastic. Now next May I've been invited to speak at the Harvard Business...

Review Conference in Warsaw poleand so that could be the next big one. It's hard to say. Yeah, there's so many places, so many places, so many amazing cultures, so many things to sample out there. I always feel bad for those that don't that don't take the time to do that, to expand their horizons, so to Speaker don't understand the joys of that. HMM. Well, honestly, I've said for years that I really think it should be a requirement that every individual in the United States should travel internationally at least once. You know, it opens your eyes to different cultures and perspectives. And now I think it's easy to get kind of insulated in our own little world. And you know, funny story growing up this little tell people a little bit about how long I've been walking this earth. You know, my choices were pointed out to me. Bar What are you gonna do? You know, your options are get married, be a teacher, be a nurse or be a steward us, as we called at that point's first, now they're now they're flight attendant, and I said, hmm, I'm thinking there are more choices available to me, but if I got to go with those four, I'm going with the flight attendant because that means I can travel the world. Yeah, it's awesome, it's amazing. I Love I love international travel. Love doing international business as well. But today we want to talk about sales experience, and so let's you and I were talking before we record. It's a passion for both of us. I would love just to get your kind of high level view on when we say sales experience for our audience, what does that mean to you? How do you provide the context for that? Sure? Well, I think, Chad, everybody's familiar with this concept of customer experience and I think that when you say customer experience, it almost suggests that great experiences start after somebody signs on the dotted line. Okay, and I am a believer that a great experience starts at the what Google Calls Zemap, the zero moment of truth, that first interaction with someone. It could be in person, it could be email, it could be a phone call and quite honestly, I know we're going to get into this in a little bit more, I don't think that sales reps and their managers are thinking about that in more depth than thinking about what is the quality that that experience from the first interaction all the way through the entire sales process and beyond. So that's that's what I mean by sales experience. First Time you interact, is a positive or negative that? It's positive, awesome. Can you move it to the next level and how do you keep providing you know, a great experience. If you do, Dad, then your competitors don't stand a chance. Well, it's an interesting concert written. I mean I've been in sales for fifteen years before that, thirteen years in marketing, and it's you know, when you look at the concept of experience, it requires, I think, a little bit more of a macro view of intent, like I need to take more ownership as a wrap or as a manager and crafting and coaching my refs on the impressions that they're making, the waves that...

...they're creating out there and how those waves were that first contact. May come into touch with someone but they struggle with it because they're so focused on my number. So is there? Have you come across any way to help sales reft for sales managers or even crows or VP's really kind of broaden their thinking around that? Well, the first thing is that people familiar with me, if they've ever listened to interviews or heard me speak or seeing things that I write, I'm very vocal chat about the fact that I think that it's too easy for sales leaders to default to measuring activity like KPI of x number of emails sent per day, x number of phone calls made and then when the going gets tough, the natural reaction is to insist on doing more. But I believe more of the wrong activity is not going to lead to the right sales result. And in fact a great book on this topic is is from Jeff Kosher and his Co author called selling to zebras, and I think you've had jeff on your show, if I were call. All right. And so the concept of focusing in on the right opportunities and then focusing on the right kind of quality activity. It doesn't mean you can't measure quantity, but at the end of the day, isn't that activity supposed to lead to a sales outcome, ie. A sales meeting? You mean our jobs that move it down the field and across the red zone into the yeah, yeah, it's pretty much a lot of sales reps when I talk to them about experience our bring up that concept and I use the word frictionless a lot, just because I spent the last ten years doing those types of services for BTC companies. I use the word friction less and they and they kind of glaze over at first and when I say look, you need to be you need to be working on controlling that first impression through value realization, and that means how did your company invoice? How did you I mean every step of that experience is critical and I see so many reps so focused on, okay, I got to get this deal, we're going to make this phone call, and there seems to be tunnel vision almost there's lack of awareness. Well, there's that, and again I come back to a lot of this rest on sales leadership. I mean, let's be fair to the sales folks. If you're an individual sales contributor in your manager is harping on you about did you send next number of emails and make x number of phone calls, you know, obviously you're going to do whatever you got to do to check the box. Now the other thing I think is it's probably a lack of training. is part of it, and so I would say to any of the individual sales contributors listening in, don't wait for your company to give you training. I don't know about you, Chad, but I've spent thousands throughout my career investing in my own success. So don't wait for somebody else. And then the other thing that I would say is you know, stand up and have a little bit of courage. It's got to be very defeating to feel like your your churn and all this activity but people are ignoring you and you're not getting them to respond back to you. That would suggest taking a step back and...

...doing things a little bit differently, and I can actually give a very specific example, which I actually wrote about on Linkedin. I even included the template that I used Chad to get these cheap marketing officers to be willing to agree to a conversation with me. Out of the twenty seven, I only knew three personally and I got a huge response back. But the main reason that happened because I made the whole outreach about something I could give to them first that would be valuable for them, that would lead to something down the road. I think what cuts lost is the first touch of starting the relationships, not closing the deal people. Well, it's funny the concept of Servant Leadership, and you know I mean I we were talking about James Carberry and he's very passionate about the same thing as I m. there's a reason that you want to form a relationship where you're not asking for something first, right. It just sets people back. It sets people back. So if you can provide value in the interaction, especially in the sales situation, you've done your homework, you understand, or have attempted to understand, what it is, it might make that person take what challenge is that they're having and you don't go right at them and say hey, I got this cool widget. Do you want it? Right? That's just not the goal. And any relationship, regardless of whether it's sales or personal, you have to be aware of, you know, the give and take of that, and I think the easiest way to do that, as you said, is to provide them something that's going to provide them value out of the gate. That sets the stage where I think a nice parody of the relationship. The trick then becomes carrying it all the way through your interactions in the sales process. HMM. That's a very, very good point, because if you if you do the right thing and you get the sales meeting, but you go into the sales meeting with the same boring dog and pony feature dump you know, then now now you've kind of set yourself back, you probably are not going to get a chance to move forward and this is very common in technology companies. I worked in technology companies and you know, everybody's enamored by their unique piece of technology and that's fantastic, but you've got to understand the the business. And in fact I'm super excited my friend deb Calvert has teamed up with with two other authors of a new book that's coming out in the in the spring, and it's all the title is stop selling and start leading, you know, the whole and it's it has backed with a lot of very rich buyer research. Buyers have said through survey. You know, here's what we want. We'll talk to salespeople who embody these kinds of traits and characteristics, but we don't want to talk to the people who just come at us with a pitch. So I recognize that a lot of individual contributors, again coming back to training, maybe aren't. Maybe they're being trained on the pitch and you can't blame the employer, though. You know, it's up to you to drive your own success, I believe. So figure out for yourself. There's lots of...

...great I mean we're talking about it right now. And if if you care about your success, if you care about achieving quota you can step back and not only do things a little bit differently, but guess what, you will then stand up as a leader in your own organization. People are going to then look at you and say, who barb, what are you doing? Your you know your these people are all responding to you. They're they're saying yes to meetings. What are you doing differently? Being accountable. I'm being here right the accountability and the I see it a lot and when I was running teams I said a lots like look, the organization can only do so much because they've got, you know, competing priorities. I think everybody, not just in sales, think everybody, if they're serious about their career, should take that responsibility to continually. You know, we should call it feeding your head. Feed your head, get yourself trained, get yourself exposed to new concepts and don't just expect, you know, something to be handed to you. I don't know. Have you come across anyway, and I'm just slightly off topic, but have you come across any way to inspire that effectively inside of sales reps? They all seem to nod and Oh yeah, yeah, but then I very rarely see them. You know, take the actions. Why? Gary Vaner Chuck says he gives all his stuff away for free because he knows nobody's going to take the time to implement it. HMM. Well, you know, I call the concept learn to earn, and I think you know, initially people may shake their head, but you know, at a certain moment in time you're either going to be so defeated that you say, you know, sales socks and I'm getting out of the profession right or you're going to say you're going to churn out of jobs and then one day you're going to wake up and say, yeah, maybe I am accountable. And so some of that may just have to happen through some people's life experiences where you know they're expecting somebody else to do for them. But I, you know, after having a long career in selling currently today, you know, I just know that if you're going to be in it for the long term, it's your job to make sure that you're staying fresh and relevant and on top of what's current and what's coming and you know, and by the way, doing those things happens to be the exact kind of thing that that buyers are looking for from sellers. Do you understand their business? Do you understand what's happening in their competitive world? What about their industry? What trends do you see in technology that might be interesting to them? I mean, let's face it, these buyers are busy their heads down in their own organizations doing their work. They maybe don't have as much time to be outside the company looking at what's happening from a broader point of view, if you're the consultative, problem solving salesperson who comes to them with fresh insights and ideas, backed by some smart thinking and demonstrate a little bit of homework, which, by the way, I didn't have the Internet when I started in sales. I don't know about you, Chad, it did. There is there's no excuse for not being able to go out there, gather some data, put your thinking cap on and think about all right, v piece of sales or faced with these five challenges, how could I bring them something different to...

...think about? It could be your white paper, but don't bring that if it's a sales pitch. You know forget that. It could be an ink article. Maybe it's a survey you picked up on. There's all kinds of ways to do these sorts of things. But I think the trap that a lot of sales people are falling into, and again partially leadership's fault, is they just come in and they think, if I just keep churning these activities, something is bound to happen. Yeah, something's bound to happen. All right, you'll probably just wash out of the job. Well, it's to me because I didn't have the I didn't have the Internet when I started, so the research process took a little bit more time and effort. So to me, having the Internet like give me ten fifteen minutes and and especially as a public company, I can go through K analyze your financials, I can look at the trends. I mean sends ten minutes. And then when I talked to a lot of reps today, the first thing I hear I in fact, I just had a conversation with somebody two days ago. Like I'm doing all of these things, I'm doing all things about I can't connect with my customer. Well, what do you know about your customer? What do you mean? What do I know about my cous will? Did you do? Any reason why? I don't have time for that. Okay, are you hitting quota? Because you're not hitting quote. I know you're not hitting quota. So take the time. Everybody, a lot of the sales ups want to walk in, they want to talk about themselves because it's comfortable, because they feel more comfortable in that space. But that experience that you are creating, that impression that you're creating, it's about making the buyer understand that you're really trying to understand where they're coming from, what they're facing, and it shows up through the entire sales process. When we were talking about email, before we hit recording. That's just one thing. And I see so many spelling airs, and maybe it's because I was an English undergraund drives me absolutely insane. But if you send a crappy email, you should expect a crappy response and that's going to color the entire sales experience. HMM. And you should expect no response. And, by the way, this practice lately that some people are getting into. Hey barbed so and so from blah, blah, blah. Did you see my last three emails? Yeah, and I'm ignoring this one. Just let you know, Imanie. It's like that's all you got. Did you see my last email? Will all three of them were a pitch. They were all about you. You, you obviously know absolutely nothing about me or who I am, or you know whatever, and people can go read the the link to the prior to the one I just did this week, the to linkedin posts. I took an email from somebody, I took their name out of it and I've saved these emails. I know you do too, and I've put ebooks together giving people compare and contrast. But in this post I share the email and then kind of break it down for people what's wrong. Hopefully, if they read it, you can sort of see that for themselves. If not, I give them a little help. And then the second follow on post just talks about how to do it better and and I even included a template that people could, you know, consider using, an approach they could consider using. I think this is where is important to talk about technology. Automation can only take you so far and there is nothing wrong with creating templates. I do it too,...

...but it does still require you to think about okay, if I'm targeting this specific industry, let's say it's, you know, Sass, companies of a certain size or whatever, what are some of the main challenges they're they're potentially facing? What are some trends that you're seeing in the industry? What do you know about their competitors? Again, that's not hard to figure out. You can craft two three sentences. You might push them again to a white paper invite them to have a conversation with you about it. What are they seeing instead? Most of these emails. Hi, I'm Bar GMACO, is social centered selling. Let me tell you all about our stuff. Well, by the way, Click this link, go watch a video and here's a link to my schedule and you can schedule a sales call with me. YEA, no, not then. No, nobody is going to. That's why nobody is responding to you, and I think listen, I'm as opinionated as I ever am. I try to be as respectful as I can and with all due respect sales folks, saying you don't have time to better represent yourself as a consultative seller, that's just being lazy, without a doubt, and it almost to me seems like if they're not willing to do that, maybe they should be looking at a different career. They probably ought to be considering it. I mean, think about how many people freaked out a year, year and a half ago when forster came out with the big prediction by two thousand and twenty, you know, a million sales jobs will be gone. People focus a lot on that, but they often don't focus on the other part of the researching that same report, where they say and five hundred thousand of those positions will be replaced by the people who do demonstrate they've got business acumen and they can bring real value to the table in terms of helping buyers think differently and solve problems differently. It's the order takers, the people who do the feature dumps, those the you know, and by the way, when everybody gets freaked out about artificial intelligence, which I did a great segment Webin ar yester at thought was great. I had a great guest on our bright talk sales experts channel is about AI and how that that can help sales people in and sales leaders measure what matters. But you know, people are getting freaked out about artificial intelligence. If you're going to stay in your little box where you're just pitching features and doing demos, yes, that can be replaced with artificial intelligence and technology and that's common pretty fast. But people, especially in complex be to be selling situations. They they still need the people, the personal interaction, and so just stop waiting. I mean we're two years off, right. I mean buyers already want a different kind of sales person now. So what are you waiting for? And the head it's not like it's it's not like it just showed up overnight either. I mean maybe...

...you know, I got my age, but if I feel like, since I've been in sales, those people that understood you were selling to people first and foremost, absolutely, and you got to build the trust. You have to you have to establish a credibility and talking about you all the time. Yeah, everybody's been to a party where there's that guy who's talking about themselves that everybody can't wait to get away from. I'm sure they would have been to those parties. So what you know, take the take the moment, take a deep breath, try and understand what the person you're you're sitting across when we're trying to get in touch with is experiencing so you can connect to that. HMM, you know, they're not looking to buy the drill, they're looking to buy the hole in the wall. Right yeah, the hang the picture and all you guys won't talk about as the drill. And I'm not listening to it. I don't know about I've had other stuff to do. Nobody's listening to that. And and and there again. That's where, you know, training can be helpful. I mean, a couple of years ago, on a Sunday afternoon, don't ask me why, I just had got my I created something called random rants in sales and social selling, just this quick little presentation. I was just tired of certain things that. Unfortunately, some of that hasn't changed, but one of the rants was, you know, lose the corporate history. Nobody cares about that. You know, why do you? Why do you want to start a sales presentation taking people through, you know, twelve slides about how awesome your company is? Nobody cares at that point. Nobody cares when you have a limited opportunity to set yourself apart from all the other competitors. If you don't want to look like a commodity, you have to do it differently and you just have to realize that that story can come out later. You've got to grab somebody. I mean think about yourself as as a buyer. You know, I don't know about you, Chad, but when I get the calls or I you know, I get the emails or my favorites, or when I get something like a situation happened about two months ago. I had downloaded this white paper. Is Interested in this technology. I thought it could do something for the business. Got The you know, email and the call from the REP and I agreed to spend twenty minutes talking to this person because I really was interested in the technology. I literally the first ten this guy didn't shut up. We said hello. Ten minutes in he's still talking about himself, the product, this and finally I said, you know, you need to stop talking. I said listen, you haven't asked me one single question about why I was willing to give you time. What I was interested in related to your technology. You know, you asked nothing about my business. You just said hello and you started pitching me straight out of the gate. I said, so we're probably not going to be doing business together, and just know that. You know I'm in sales as a profession and I've been in it for a long time. Run big teams, incorporate. You really want to think about adjusting your approach. If you get somebody to say Yes to twenty minutes,...

...don't waste it yaking about yourself. You need to find out why they're willing to talk to you. Why? Think it was research that, I think it was gone dot ioe put out that you could tell how successful the sales call was. They had all the analytics that would show you if the sales rep talked more than, I think it was forty three percent of the time during the initial call, the opportunity to win it, that the percentages is went through the floor and that twenty minutes you really want them talking. You don't. You don't want to be talking about yourself. That you can do that later. Just asking sense. But it's amazing how many, how many reps don't then even that crap thing. I think there's an art form and a bit of a science to crafting those questions. It's part of what you know as part of what we teach and work with people on. But there's this seems to be this reluctance to doing that because they don't feel as in control of the conversation. So they get they go right to where they're comfortable. I'm going to talk for ten minutes of this and hopefully I say something you give a crap about well, and that's we're investing in learning and doing your homework and broadening your, you know, horizons in terms of better understanding your own industry and competitive challenges and trends. All of that can help you get off the script. And you know Jet Blunt's latest book on Sales Eq. You know JEB talks about it. It's a trigger. So what happened with this rap? I knew exactly what happened. Oh my gosh, somebody said Yes to a phone call with me. Who I got twenty minutes. I better pack it all in there well. And what I've always said to people chat. If, if someone grants me thirty minutes of their time, you can bet the twenty five minutes of that time is me talking with them about them, you know, talking with them about kind of some homework that I've done and some things that look to it, and asking the right kinds of questions. Listen, it's not hard to put your thinking cap on and ask some decent questions which do not include what keeps you up at night and that sort of thing. And you know, when people will say to me will barb, if they ask me to tell them about our business, shouldn't I do that? I said no, redirect. You know, when Pete, if someone says to me early on in a sales call, Chad, well, barb, tell us a little bit about your services and kind of the pricing, I say, you know what, I don't think we know enough about I don't know enough about what you're trying to accomplish yet. So I feel like that's a little premature. I have a few things I'd like to validate, a few questions I'd like to ask you. With that be okay? Could we talk about that first? And they're like Oh, okay, and you know, and then we start talking about their business and I start asking them questions. And then when you hear things like wow, that's a really quick, great question. Nobody's ever asked us that, I think to myself, that's a sales basic. But Hey, and their mind. I now am at a whole different level than somebody else right and so I think it's important for people to resist the urge. You'll get your chance.

Find out what the buyer cares about first and build from there. Yeah, I'm without I mean without doing that. You cut off all the possibilities, cut off the possibilities where you could go and you you instantly get put into that box of your just like every other salesperson that's come through here. You have no ability to differentiate. You're just another just another pitch man. I can totally see how those jobs are, you know, on the chopping block and going to be impacted by AI. But the the sales reps that really take the time understand people, understand the business and do their homework and know how to have a conversation that I think has to be really based on true curiosity like that. I don't know if you've seen it, but for me, the sales reps that I have seen be the most effective are the ones that are genuinely curious about what's going on in the business and what problems are having so they can have a dialog about solving those problems. MMM, and I'm really glad you said that, because I think this is a good place to say that those are the same people and I'm going to put myself in that camp, Chad. These are the same people who genuinely care about doing no harm and other words, they want to do right by the people in the organization. I don't know that enough reps really stop to think about the fact that sometimes people are putting their careers on the line with these buying decisions and you know, the last thing you want to do is make promises that can't be kept. The last thing you want to do is sell something that's going to make problems worse makes them look bad. I think it's not just the curiosity as people who genuinely in their heart care to do the right thing. And sometimes doing the right thing means walking away, means being honest and saying we are not going to be in a position to help you solve this problem, and I want to connect you with a couple other companies because I think they can help you now. I when I first did this years ago, my boss was standing behind me listening in on a call and after I got off the phone, all my Gosh, did he rip me a new one? He's like, barb, what are you doing? Why are you telling that customer? And I said, becaused him. We actually don't have a product that's going to help solve the problem. This is what they're faced with and I'm not going to sell him something. I said what do you want me to do? Sell something knowing it's not only going to tick them off because it's not going to work, it's going to be a return for us that's going to look bad on me. You, the department. I said I'm not going to go there. Doing the right thing was recommending him to talk to these two other people. You probably knew where I'm going with the story, because that gentleman came back and ended up buying many hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of other technology solutions, both hardware and software. Why? Because he never forgot that I was willing to say, Hey, we're...

...not able to help you here. Some people, I think, who can, and I think that's I think today more than ever, that is super important. You've got to balance short term and long term and if you're just trying to get a short term Skale sale and you're not thinking about the impact that could potentially make if it doesn't go right, that's a problem. Well, I've still see it today a company that I will not name. I was looking at technology for our business and I, you know, I filled out the form on the website like hey, I want to have a demo. I'm willing to give you some of my time, and the first email I got, I mean literally seconds later, was hey, we only work with companies that are this size and I don't know if that's you or not, which irritated me first and foremost. You could have looked and would not have taken a much time to figure that out. Right. Well, I don't know if I really should schedule time with you or not, and I'm just kind of lit me up so bad that I quickly ensured that we were not going to be doing business and went directly to their competitor, who said, not a problem, let's talk. Yeah, YOU'RE A little bit smaller than we normally would work with. What we let's talk see if we can solve the problem that well, and you know, right and and frankly, that sells person's arrogance and rudeness. You're not going to forget that. And while you're not going to say it here on the Podcast, I imagine privately you probably let some people know and you know that that should be and that should be an immediate signal to the marketing department, because we live in a world where, if you're going to fill out a form, it is very easy to include. What is the size of Your Business? Right, right, and if you don't fit the typical size, then a very nice, professional response would be. You know, we don't have enough experience supporting companies of your size. Here's some companies we think could help you. Right there there are. There are a lot of other ways you could have gone, but I'm sorry, insulting a buyer. That's not a good sales tactic people. Oh not at all. I mean it goes back to that experience and honestly, it created a granted, I'm hyper aware of it because I am so passionate about I pay attention to that stuff, but it created in me reluctance to even really be willing to even think about them anymore as a potential provider, not only for me, but when I'm asked by other, you know, other organizations, what technologies would you recommend? I'm not that's not coming up on the list because I wouldn't want to the experience that I create and provide. I don't want to make a recommendation to a you know, it's a potential prospect or a customer, to a technology solution where their sales teams are not professional. I had to catch myself there, but you know what I mean. Yeah, I well, of course I do. And you know, and there again, when you think about experience, it's it's like it's like, you know, skipping a rock on a pond right the it's going to have this ripple effect and that ripple effect can be a negative one. That impacts you as a sales are contributor personally, can make your...

...company look bad. You know, now it's expanding further. Nobody's going to recommend you. We have something called social media and social networks. We can actually tell people not to buy from you or even talk to you. We can tell them the experience is really poor. And here's why. Because in that situation with that company, if they're very clear that they don't support a smaller size business, then it's their responsibility to make that clear on their website. Right, you know, coming back and to somebody who's expressed interest and then thinking it's okay to be rude. I just don't think that end of Itll just going to last very long in sales. But Hey, that's just me. This is this has been an amazing conversation. As we get the I want to be respectful of time. But as we get to the end, if you were to tell sales professionals one thing that you think would be a great starting point for them to consider their sales experience, what would that be and why? I think it comes down to taking responsibility for your own success, Chad, which we've talked about. Don't wait for somebody else to help. Give you the training and the skills and the guidance you need to respond to what buyers say they want from salespeople. They will talk to us. It's your job, though, to make it clear how you're different from everybody else who just pitches. You look like a commodity. So that's my biggest piece of advice. Want to youtube videos, follow people like you and me, listen to podcast you know, get out there and and ask questions and take it on yourself to drive your own personal sales success, because at the end of the day, nobody else is going to do it for you. My mom used to say nobody's going to make you happy but you, and you're responsible for that. Build that, build that, and mom is a wise woman. Yeah, Huh, yes, it was it. I'm sure you know what. She's a saint, because I know when I was a child. That did not did not make it easy, but she's definitely insane. So thank you, barb, for this. This has been great. If people are in interested in talking to easiest way, I mean you're out there and all the social media platforms, but easiest way to connect with you. What would that be? Oh, well, listen. You can connect with me on Linkedin. You can find me on twitter at Barbara GIEAMONCO. Read the blog. Hey, it's okay to call me too. I'm here in Atlanta, Atlanta, Georgian in the US. Plus one four zero, four six, four seven, four nine, two five. I think phone is great technology. Anybody's got questions or interested in a little bit of mentoring and help, just give me a call. Love to talk to you. Excellent. Thank you again very much for the time and has been an absolute pleasure having you on the show. Well, thank you so much for the invitation chat. I really appreciate it. All right, everyone that does it for this episode. Please check us out at be to be REV exaccom show the episode of friends, families, Co workers. If you like what you here, leave us a review on itunes. We do look at that to determine what type of guests to bring on so you will continue listening and find value in what we're doing. Until next time. We have value prime solutions. Wish you all nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to...

...the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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