The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Alex Rosemblat on The Importance of Having a Well-Trained Sales Team

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Imagine a wall.

If you have an untrained sales team, and you say, “Go, go, go,” they will inevitably keep running into the wall and bouncing off. After running into the wall enough times, you have to step back and ask how to get over it. There might be a lot of ways: you might be able to bring a ladder, make a human ladder, fly over, or use a pogo stick.

It’s an analogy, but for Datadog’s VP of Marketing, Alex Rosemblat, this is what training is: teaching people how to get over the walls that they run into with buyers.

Find a breakdown of this episode here.

Are you concerned about hitting yourrevenue targets this month quarter or year? Your answer is value: primesolutions, a sales, training and marketing optimization companyleveraging the valueselling framework visit, www, dot value, primeSOLUTIONSCOM and start accelerating your results. You're listening to the BTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast, dedicated T, ohelping executives, traintheir sales and marketing tums to optimize growth, whether you're lookingfor techniques and strategies or tools and resources that you come to theright place. Let's accelerate your growth in three to one hell, everyoneand welcome back to the btob revenue executive experience, O'n your hostChat Sanderson for those that don't have time to listen to the entireepisode. Please check us out at BTB REVIZECCOM and, if you're, findingvalue in the podcast. Please rest review on itunes and and share withyour network. So wer the family get the message out there, so others canbenefit as well. Today, we're lucky to have with is alxh Rosand BLACD bpvmarketing, with dated dog, a company that focuses on providing claud scale,monitoring for dynamic, infastructure and applications. What makes today'sinterview extremely exciting is the Werwe focusing our conversation on theimportance of having a very well trained sales to you, what that entails,the value that results? Obviously, this is a subject Neardur, my heart, butless we gin be say, Alex. thank you very much for taking the time andwelcome to the show they shit could to be on. So before we jump into the topof the day, we usually like to start kind of upload. You know frontloadsomevalue here I like to have our guests. You know if you look back across yourcareer with theire, a defining moment that you go back to over and overlessons that you learn something that changed the course of your career is sowhat was it and what lessons did you take away from it yeah? So earlier onin my career, I was more technical and I guess what really got me started onon the seals of Markin cat, even though I had dein a sales engineer previously,when I was in Grad School, I try to start a company with another studentand we were both technical. My COFATO was actually een more technical than Iwas so I took ou more of the product management roles trying to find Batacustomers and we actually were able to get a really stron prototype together.That worked, and I was really advanced technology and what happened was thatwe couldn't get anyone to even try it out for free, couldn't give it away soyeah and I mean like we show peopleatdenal. Like me, I was actually I got pretty good at prospecting, so you knowI could definitely get in front of the CEO and then we could show Ma prototypeand he'd be like wow. This was great and then wed be like, so you want totry it out literally we'll do it for free. You just have to connect thiswith people in your company to get it set up and we always get that like.Well, I don't know. Maybe next quarter Yo know we're kind of busy right now,so that that's really when, when I started to no Itas wile, I think ofmhaving a problem selling, where I think everything kind of came to ahead wasthat we were talking to an angel...

...investor, and you know he also took alook at the prototype thought it was great. But when HEU started asking usabout how we would sell this and saw you know, I think probably a lot ofblank looks on our face said you know: Okay, guys, I could just give you amillion dollars today. Ive got in the bank, you know it would be like playmoney, and I think that you guys have an interesting idea, but if you couldonly spend that one million dollars to get customers and to get a lot of them,what would you do and my cofonder and I look at each other and kind of shrugour shoulders and that that was kind of you know the the punch in the nose thatI'm like wow? I have no idea what I'm doing and anyways from then on. Itdidn't feel good to stup the Cross area that I was jst completely cluelessabout. So that's where I started to get roomy interested in sales of marketingdoing a lot of my own research talking to people that were in the domain andthen righ out of Grad School. I got into a product marketing rule and wasluck enough to start working under some very experience, those a marketingpeople and they basically taught me everything from the ground up excellentand then totally makes sense. Why, as we were preing for the show you wantedto talk about, you know, training, sales teams and why it's so important?I'm curious one of the things that we kind of set back and forth an email s.just you know, there's always this tendency for sales leaders to wanttheir refts. You know to reduce their time to revedue their ttr, hit theground running, get him in the field and understand that I mean make it makecomplete sense. You want more bodies on the ground generated revenue, but itcreates some challenges right. So I was wondering if you could help ouraudience understand your perspective on that a praps Yore an example of wherethat's caused challenges for you yeah. Absolutely. So I think that most salesleadership, their firste reflexis Gogo, go. You know the most valuable time isthe number of hours that the people on their sales team have. So you know if it's an inside sales team.You want your people on the phone, especially during business hours. Ifit's a field team, you an thim in front of customers on, say so anytime thatyou are taking people away for anything to in order T at that they're not onthe phone or that they're not on the onsed at a customers. Potentialcustomers site is time that you are not making your goal, and is everyone knowsfor salesperson? If you make a surpasstor goal, really good thingshappen, Real Wole enough times, you're going to probably finding another job.So can I can understand, like the anxiety and the desire to really wantto maximize the amount of time that people are doing their their job? Thething is especially for products that are very neco, very technical or reallyrequire a lot of domain knowledge in order to connect with the buyer. Ifyour people don't really know what to say what to ask what they, what they'reactually hearing when someone's talking you're not going to get very far, Imean the the way that I keep on seeing it is that there's a wall and if youhave an untrained sales team and you're just saying go: Go go it's like they'l,literally keep on running against the wall and bouncing off a lot of a lot of sales teams are, areincentivized or their metric. I I don't...

...know how to make theverb for that, butthey're secially observed and ingraded on kind of check, mark kind of stuff.How many calls did you do how many emails had you said how many meetingswere able to arrange? You know those those Romers ere pretty easy to game.You could do a hundred calls and have a hundred conversations and make yournumbers know of those conversations would have amounted to anything,because you have no idea what youwere talking about. So you know, I think,that, after running your into all enough times the thought is, you got totake a step back and try to figure out. How do I get over this wall and theremight be a lot of ways I mean you might be able to. You know: Build a ladder,bring a ladder, make a human ladder fly over use a pogo stick. I know it's an analogy, but you knowall of those ways of getting over it. That, for me, is what the training is:teaching people how to get over those walls that they find with the buyers,because if a rep did not come from a particular space wor, it's a new kindof product, it's a new kind of audience, they're going to have to learn all thatstuff to really get good at their job and to be effective a without a doubt.I mean there's and there's multiple layers of information that you have totrain the sales ripes on right. There's, there's the foundationol. What is thesales methodology process that your organization is using first scalabilityand measurement, but then is also the product Knowledge Igh? Yes, and ifwe're looking at kind of a rainbows and Unicorns a perfect world, you know,from your perspective, in an extremely technical industry that you're in whatwould that ideal sales training program look like well, I can go a little bitinto what we do and how it's subdivided so yeah you're,definitely right on the money that there's kind of the product market, thecontextural training about who you're selling to what they need and what youactually have to offer, and then there's there's the nuts and bulets ofI'm actually selling and selling effactively, and the former issomething that I think is probably dessuted for a marketing team.Marketing teams tend to hire people like product marketers who have domainNex pertipsor at least have full a lot of time to dedicate to sitting down andreally researching something and then finding a way to make it Digesticl forthe masses. You know a big part of a product marketing job is education andenableint. I think that the latter part the actual salesmanship, that's what Ihapeen Colli. That's something that I think ideally needs to come from salesmanagement. They might have a certain way of doing it. They might have. Youknow, good examples. At the end of the day, t e manager is only as good on thesale side as the people that are working under them. So it's really onthem to certify that, at least in the nuts and bolts of day job. You knowasking discovery, questions, negotiating contracts trying tonavigate an organization, a d get the right people on a call like those areskills that the sales manager really needs to be training on and oftenlycertifying their team on Etelen. So when you guys do dog ro approach, this,do you have a teer turning program that you guys employ? We do indeed I cantalk about it again from the R content and product and market piece of it,since, since I do run the marketing team, I always keep my ear on. What'sgoing on from the sales navlment part,...

I've I'V had some sales experience, soyou know it's good for me to have a good idea. What's going on the otherthing that I like to know what the sales team is training on is we willchange the format of what we're presenting from a product marketperspective to fit what's been trained on in from the sales teams, so, forinstance, you know they want to do a certain kind of lesson and then needspersunos. We will go and make like backstories for some prospects or somecustomers. It have it not to the exact kind of lesson, O the exact kind ofrole play that the sales team is trying to do so. We try to fill in those gapsand made things real or chop whatwere chopup Wa we're doing and see they canfit alongside what the sals team is being taught for the processperspective, but what we do for for our new hires whensomeone joins is we have new hiher training? That's basically meant to gofrom you've, never heard of a computer before you are understanding. You know whatthe base in technology is. Were the problems come up that that our productsolves hower product, solves them, and then I gets into the dynamics of themarket. You know, and it we even finish up with a little bit of process Tuffrom the marketing side. You know what we do to get people whoweare of ourcompanye signing up. So that's where some of the people that you're going tocall on have actually come from so within two to three days h. The pointis that any salesperson should be able to get on the phone and have anintroductory five attendent conversation and understand what thePersonis is actually expressing or saying on the OTER SID wine excellent.So with those I jump back for a seconds, so you talked about Forsonas, and sothat's a great way for sales and marketing to you know, make surethey're on the same page or curious when you guys, when you generate thosepersonas, do you do it from a CX standpoint or or a byer standpoint, orboth meaning, like the person that you maybe selling to your buyer, personamay be different than your actual user, Por Sona and I'm curious, if you guysdifferentiatin those at all and and if so you know how di you get thatinformation to build out those personos yeah. We definitely do we gete theinformation from our general knowledge of Afoul, the customers that we havenow and the interactions that we hade we're still started up. So you knowwhen something happens with a certain customer like it kind of gets, Shurereverybody knows right W. everyone knows, you know, feature requests ornew uses for the product that no one had founht it before, like that. Thatmakes therounds pere pretty quick and it's great, because we' re reallyreactive to hour customer to a prospects needs. So we take a lot ofthat experience and again taking the theres general patterns and and makingup basically weaving together. Some of those different strands into a newstory is almost igentical to what you probably encounter in your run to themill person that tha needs to use a product of ours going back to somethingelse that you were saying you know e oftentimes, the buyer and the end userf. The product is the different people and there might even be several peoplein between that that have a best interest in the product an and we willdefinitely do persunas and and again...

...also negotiating your contract orsomething that's going to happen. AP At the top walking someone through reallyquick demo or trying to really figure out what the technical problems are. IsSi think that ould probably happened on the on the end user side. So wedefinitely do make pursuanes for all the levels where you typically have tointeract with people from the company and get it thumbs out and Gotcha. Isthat something that the sales team you know keep with them or reference astheyre as they're doing their Albon, calling wher theyre prospecting or erinteracting with the account some of you guys updakes, I mean just much likethe product will evolve and change. You'll have to continue to kind ofreinforce with them right, there's the chance that has the product changes asyou're, offering walves that you're targeting different types of peopleright like a CFO per santed to get the money, maybe different than a CTO oryou know, vpit type of personon is that stuff that you guys update andcontinually go back and reinforce ith the sale, tean yeah. I think that againbecause We'e Ding to start very fast growing start up we' kept on gettingrequests for yew and different kinds of scenarios to train on o our pursunas.So I'd say that more than anything, oftentimes person is get superseded,because maybe general training gets split up into three more specificaspects and and then we make something Taylor to each specific training thatwas kind of an outgrowth of what used to be done. So I think that more thanhaving to maintain refresh we keep on refining and as we refine, I feel goodabout it, because you know it's kind of like any sport or any other activity.The more you focus on one thing and you repetitively work on that one thing:thebetter you're going to get so t at that's, been rour experience so far,excellent. So and with trading in general I mean Thot, just salestraining, although I know that's wha focused on there is a you know. Youmentioned earlier. If you pull them out of the field, they're not doing whatwhat they're supposed to be doing or what thet e exactly as expect them todo right, make more calls mean foron more customer. These the importance ofsales trading and making sure that that entire sales and marketing team isaline. Is that something that is jured by a couple of people tey dont were. Isit is part of the DNA? Is it something that the company is a whole understands?The importance of you mean making time to get those at hours of knowledge in H,peoples saids right? Yes, so I was lucky enough that I joined the companybefore a sales team was formed, so you know I just started doing newhired trainings and we started working in toe more advance, training that wedo as well, and that was that was just the way the things were done sodifferent from maybe other organizations or people that aregetting into a sales or a marketing beedership roll where that might not bepart of the culture they have to change the culture, because I was inrelatively early on. We use made the culture that way from the get go, sothat was always the expectation. Aside from that, you know. I think that I tomake sure at that, it's worth it if we're going to try to make a training.I definitely get the green light from my counterparks over Oun t sales team.So actually going back to that to the...

...earlier experience that I talked aboutabout when I try to start a company, is the story continues on we when Istarted to get Veterat, I was marketing. We actually pivoted around and tried acouple of industries and we actually stumbled across an industry where Istarted to get people offering money for the product I was describing on thephone Sidunscen wo Mi, they needed it. We unfortunately were bit burned out byhen so e, but but like it's funny, because I didn't realize until I hadmore sales marketing experience, how extraordinary that was someone who hadnever seen this thing was offering me in some cases large amounts of money. Ithink I got offered Eighteensan dollars to part of an early Beta and I didn'teven offer an early Paidu yeah. I just explained what the product did. So Imean like h with those experiences thor. If someone really really really wantsomething you will know, they wil't immediately take out thei, checkbook orthei wallet or the equivaent, which and the equivalent for sales leader ivestheir teams time. So you know if we're going to pitch something that we thinkshould be trainied on, because we we've overheard some conversations ore seensome you know messages go around in your chat room with people, not reallyunderstanding something. If the sales leaersust like Oh yeah, I totally needthat. Please, like give it to me, mediately like we know we're going toget the time for it if they're a little bit lukewarm on it like that's, wherewe really have to explore- and you know, maybe we got it wrong. We observesomething in an this problem with something else. So I think that's thenumber one part after that. I sit down in my product marketing team and wespeck out how much needs to be covered for the knowledge to get in thePeople's heads, how much time it's going to take and then also what we'vegotten really into now. Once we got more staffing on the marketing side, wedo testing certification. So not only are we going to say we're going to needfive hours for this or six hours or two hours or what have you? We have acertification program where someone has to take a test. We like to do role playtests basically world exams which, because that's the closest to theactual interaction sure that that's alwas going to have to have to show aknowledge off and we will certify people so and then we've lit the salesleadership know who is certified and who is wasn't so this wasn't just aflash in the PAN training. This was a training that happened and we canbasically guarantee that somebody got certified because we're prettystringing. I mean we pretend to be customers when we're doing role playingand if a customer would have been shaking their head or said like I'm outof here, we will fail someene for the same reason and t e d. They get theopportunity to go back and work on their. You know the areas of deficiencyor is it yeah? Is it? Is it like? You know, Youat the Eng of the plank andeither pass and you're out? Oh no absolutely will keep on runningtrainings and if someone didn't pass, it will possibly collect all the peoplethat didn't make it and do another another run throughout it again. For usas a marketing team, the goal is to have a really knowledgeable, wellversed sales team. That knows the product knows the customer knows youknow what kinds of problems the customer often runs into, can connectall the dods and can make everything good for the customer that they canhelp them out. So you know t at that's...

...our goal. You know again. I think thata lot of it oftentimes is, will power thing. We definitely have reps thatreally really want to learn, and they will. You know like pull the equivalentof at home nighter, essentially to get that knowledge or do independentresearch and there's some people theyre like well. You know 'm, I'm intresting.I has to do this, so you know the I think of the attitude that asalesperson also goes in with makes a big difference towards their success.Oh withthat, about without aboubt I mean when I work woth clients and teachclasses you always have y. Now you can see it right, there's about a thirdthat are excited to be there. Third, that are kind of uncertain, and then athird they're like why the hell am I in here right yeah, we always K ow. Ialways start the classes that I teach with a look. I can. I can teach anyonehow to be a better sales Porson, if you're willing to take one step. Justtake one step towards me: I'll make up the distance, but if you're not awilling student you'R, just you just not going to learn it hit's t a wasteof your time and a waste of mind. So let's find somewoy else for you toprovide some value yeah I mean, I think, a the one thing is that myself a andthe product marketers I have can be a little ther attached or just a touchspicy. They dres someone. You know what I mean F, they do have someone likethat. We are a team of people that know the product aner, the customer. Quitewell. That's why we're putting these traings together. You know you justchallenge someone: Okay, you're, in a situation with X, ynz and someone asksthis question. What do you do and what do you say- and you know if you do thewrong answer- Hagis, what that might have been a great customer and hedidn't know how to answer it, so they might move on and look for somethingelse. Right, yeah. I mean the opportunity that you know the number oftimes that you're going to be allowed to get in front of that ultimate buyerright. The power person can be limited, so you've got to really know your stuff.You got to really do your preparation. You got to, you know, have to show andbuild that credibility and trading critical to that. So I'm curious. Youknow. Yo We've talked about kind of two o three days when they start and theydo the product training. They go through the moral exams, im kind ofcurious. How? How do you guys reinforce it as the product of walls and is therea set way of going back a D and talking them are doing more training? Is therea set schedule for that? How do you guys approaph that yeah? So we also doa Damo certification training, which is pretty involved. It's a number of hoursof classroom training and a repsone practice. But when we certify them likethey know the product, they know the use cases they canfor the top twentythose freaquent questions hate come up really. Well, they can handle questions.He Don' not the answered too, really gracefully. So it's a lot of work andwe, you know we celebrate it like. We keep a list of everyone os certified onthe Devo and they get a nice plaque. And what we started to do is that westarted to build out advanced trainings, but you have to be democrertified first,because you get to kind of like a baseline level of knowledge with thedemotrain that we do in terms of the product in the market and the customer.And if you didn't go through that the advanced trainings, you know it's kindof like Spanish one en one Ispanish, one o two to two honr ded, a two O twolike you, can't you can't go into one or two or two or one until you passthat first class with all the basics. So we keep on doing that and of courseour product keeps on involving and so involving super rapidly. So whenever wehit a point where, whatever version F...

...of the Damos Grip, that we train peopleon just H, there's there's a lot of new things that we really want to show to.Everyone will draw a line, make a new version and we will do a basically aresertification. I mean a lot of other a lot of other things in real life. Dothat, like you, have to get your your driver's license? You know reopto Yor,passport, reots every now and then take a new picture because because you mightlook a little bit different from La time, so no we're secially doing thesame thing. We're reopping people, I'm Aiy, disome greatest knowledge, and youknow we spent a lot of time making some of these new features or they've comefrom some. You know a lot of customers request, so we really need to be ableto have people show them. Explain them really well and take any questions fromthem. So we keep people sharp by by this recertification process. Excellent,do you have gove a built of feedback mechanism for the TRAINIS? Is there yKno surveys, or do you guys dbrief with them or we're? You know, exectiveleadershould be reefs with them after the train, you see how effective it was.How do you guys measure the success of the training and get the feedback fromthe crates built back in yeah? No, we have a post training feedback forms, sowe send this out and of course we gauge them. You know actually interestingabout that. You know I feel like it's kind of a pattern thing every now andthen you kind of get like a cermagentabout something. But you know it's really hard. Ifyou've had fifty responses that all seem to be in the same band and thenone person- that's just you know, kind of off, the charts is sometimes itcould have vare. You know they might point out some good things, but by ward,sometimes that was just them but yeah. I know we send feed back forms toeveryone, and then we also get a lot of quality to feedback. So I have regularCheckins wit, the sales leadership and something that I askd is you know what,if you guys heard whet you know like is anything this ing? I something have tochange. So we react to that. Of course, a lot as well. So the two things thatwould really you know make us have to look into something re change it aroundWedo. It would be a pattern of recurring pattern from user feedback,or you know, sales manager coming and saying: Hey, you guys are not trainingat all in this really important thing, or everyone keeps on saying that thisthis you know particular segment like didn't, get it atal. So we take both ofthose pieces of you backs. Okay, Excel: Let's Pav it a little bit talk morespecifally about you know your businesses, your challenges', I'mcurious N. When you get up in the morning and you're getting ready to goto work, what's the top business objective for you at data dog thesedays, I feel like it's live into start up. WIT's, not e cover a lot of different areas. Youknow, I think, at the end of the day, we've made a product that really fitsthe market and, as I mentioned before, we're very reactive to what customersand prospects request and what they say what they need. So if our product is soso, I guess widely applicable to people that that needed it's about. How do youkeep on getting in front of people and making them aware that such a productexists, so they didn't know about it before so I guess t you know I wake upevery day and think of like is there a...

...pocket of people is or is there a groupthat I was not aware of or that there might be another way of getting infront of that? I haven't thought of before, and you know in terms of of branding and LeGeneration, we're always trying out different things to get in front ofpeople. But I'd say: That's! That's the big part of it. The sales, an evlemantpeace O, obviously factors into it, because once we find these people andthey're interested in they want to find that more. We better have you know webetter be ready to talk right, and so, if you so getting infont of people, when you guys do that, you have I'm assuming there's marketcamppans to go on and you have the outbon sales team. That's doing thatand prospecting as well wor. Is it one hundred percent you guys are trying toget as much attention and awareness and drive the inbats o you can pass them tosales? Is there a you know, like a team approach, T to driving awareness oftryng to get those meetings or where is the vast majority of thatresponsibility lie well ad we're a very pragmatic organization, so we'll gowith whatever works so so yeah? No, I mean we do a lot ofinbaut marketing a lot of content or even even if we do add campaigns, we'renot going to do any fluffy. You know like Hey, well solve your problems.Well, it'll be very, very specific and we were very acrimonious abouttargeting. So whatever we're saying is very specific is also going to match upvery specifically to what you're looking for, and you know, Abo Samgsoken. We are doing some. Some mapbound calls trying once again to say theright thing to the right person and really you know, do our research. Youknow someone should should welcome the call, because if we did everythingright, we should be pretty close to hitting the nail on the head forsomething that they were probably looking for. Anyways yeah, that's agreat point, a mean. It's one that you know. There's still people out therethat are debating whether or not the phone is dead right, and I just itblows my mind. I don't like the tur cold calling right, because, if you'redoing, if you're, using all the tools like your disposal, it shouldn't reallybe cold. This should be, they should be more warmed up than anything and thatability to do the research and interact them targeth them effectively is kindof the becoming the bread butter of saysan marketing, teaps right, so yeah,I'm kind of curious. What do you guys have you have a tool set that you'reusing that Youve that you found o be particularly effective or pools ingeneral from marketing stame point that you're really fund of I'm alwayslooking to you know, keep my pulse onther the of what's going on in thetext in not specifically for research, I mean, I think, for research e to whoyou always do really try to learn about someone. I guess I want to go back tothe comme think wer just talking about about the phone being dead. I don'tthink the phone is dead, but I do think that general social skills are on thedecline and- and maybe maybe you know, this is how it's always been, but I dothink that the fact that you know a lot of people, it's very easy to giveanonymous comments on blogs. Or you know, tweet anonymously or just youknow, boil everything down. Intwo hundred forty characters, Ataly takesaway. You know like it's very easy to have a one sided conversation right now and being a good. You know, peopleperson in a good conversationalist does...

...take a lot of practice. So I you know Iam thinking like you know before people would have had to have a towayconversation all the time there, the technol you know the telephonetelegraph like usually was a two week conversation and even before that, likeyou, go maybe to the local to the local watering hole or something and have aconversation. That's that's how you find out about stuff an and that seemsto not be happening as aftle. So I think people e are losing the socialmuscles a little bit Wull. Without a doubt- and I think part of it too- Imean- is if people are using the tech- that'sout there correctly right, the the systems Hof actuol like out, reached ot,io or or anything im like te navigate. If you US them correctly, the textoulreally provide scale for you to have more of those to way conversations Werh.It should get you in front of more people so that your calendar is filledup, wot them because you're working at scale, I have seen far too many salesraps in some marking, people that are just too afraid of their rejection.They come from LEDDI SOMEBODY SAYING: Oh No! No! I don't need that or no. Idon't want to talk to you right now. I don't know where that I don't know.Maybe I've been Doin, says a marketing too long in my skins too think. But Idon't know where that sensitivity comes from because the end of the day it isabout. You know two people working together solve a problem andthat shouldnt be daunting. I don't think well, you know I can't give alittle tip, maybe for anyone else that guys feeling that way. You knowsomething that I personally love in again going back to just fability tohave a conversation. These Trad shows, I think the tracers are the best hedoesn't get better than that. You have the person in front of you, you talkngto them. You can engage their reactions, their facial expressions and, and youcan tell whether, whether they like what they're hearing or whether ythey're trying to get out of there and like signaling their friend Aget, youknow for help or something something that we also do with a AR team livesthat we go to a lot of trade shows, and we definitely try to make it so thatbrand new people wi will be staffing or botist and they'll be out there talking to potential customers to you know,maybe to other vendors I mean like they'll, get out there and they'llthere's no other way like someone's in front of you. You have to talk to into the deep end of the pool, but youknow what it's t just just like someone. That's you know that may be just learnhow to swim. It doesn't really feel really feel confident about it. Youonly kind of kick around for like a minute or two, and then you realize ohWaii mean I know how to Swin Right S. I guess I can't reemphasize Yo Trachows person, person eraction. You know, I think that for any salesperson,that's first getting into a newspaceor new company. One day at a trade showchatting with people seeing what they were acting to starting to see thepatterns when they all say it, they have the same problems, that's probablyworth the equivalent of like a month or two on the phones. So I mean I'm a bigRecordin that F, it may be. Someone listening on the call is ISN'n in SalesMangien, but is a salesperson themselves. You can take yourself toevents a really easy way. Meetupcom, I think, is fantastic. I think that mostnish areas and probablyoufor big sales...

...and you'R, probably saling some sort ofBTB product. So I think a lot of you know business areas or other nice areaswill probably have a Meta Portu around you and just show up have halfconversations with people yeah, it's not as painful as people seem to buildit up to in their heads. I mean you have conversations all the time everyday, right, you' with your mailmen or Wer, the BERICI starbucks. You knowit's the same thing right. It's just doing it a little bit more purpose tofocus on a different thing, so it's yeah, it's a great insight. So let'stalk about trends for just a second. Our listeners are big on. You know,like I said, there's that debate on hiss the phone dead everybody's talkingabout Ai will that replace sales people, I'm curious if there's a trend, whetherhe sales ar marketing that you've kind of got your eye on and you're excitedto see how it plays out. I don't know you know, that's what I haven't beenthinking of and again dinor pragmatis and also being at a fast goring startup. The concern is very much on the heron now and maybe like looking intothe horizon, rather than what's pass there. I think that one thing hat'sbeen interesting since I've been doing marketing is that I think, if anythingis dead or dying, it would appear to be email, marketing and- and I guess thatthat disapply also to sales round, if you're going to do likea mail, merge or you're going to try to set out a lot a lot of emails, a D. Ithink that you know everyone's just wise up to the email game. I think thateven five six seven years ago, you know having having an email marketingstrategy, you're, probably more, of a cutting edge company to someone thatwas in the main stream. Now I think it's gone past to me. instreament, likeevery company, will be sending you emails, so you know that in my mind,actually reemphasizes the need to be discovered in a place where people arelooking for you, whether it's a trade show or you know if you do have, if youdo get somebody on a call and you do kind of Neel, with fance keeping themup ta night within the first five or ten seconds of talking to them. But butI do think that the email on again, because it's so easy to send out youknow a single person to company- can set up a blast that goes out to theirentire database and then, when you have thousands or tens of thousands ofcompanies doing that against the same people, it there's way too much noise.You can't find a signal, Oh withhat, yeah and Span Mey. I can tell you thatI probably only open one of every, maybe thirty. What are the equlentofemail blast emails that I get and that's only because it happened. Youknow the subject line happens it's something that I'm focused on at thatpoint, but really e GAM. I Ike his personalization and it's finding waysto use that tech to enable that true human connection, that shows theinterest and that you have done your own work and that you, you know you arenot just treating them like a number. You really have spent the time tounderstand them as a person to get back to that human connection totally, andyou know I think people have wisedit up by law. You have to have an onsubscribed link when you sen out an email blastso you now, I think peoplekind of scrill down they see little one subscribe like even when people try tohave you seen. People like do really like great text. So that's the yollignore it like. I don't H, N, I don't thinkanyone's getting fold nowadays, yeah...

...without a doubt without adoubt. Solet's Shange Direction e a little bit. I like to ask all of our guests kind oftwo standard questions towards the NDOFH interview right and the first issimply your VP marketing, an a growing startup that makes you a potentialprospect, oor target for other sales professionals, and we talked aboutemail. You know eman marketing not being effective from your stanpoit, butI 'm curious. If you can have our audience understand, if somebody weretrying to sell to you or get your attention, whatwhat would build the credibility with you? What would make you? What pathscould they use to engage in that conversation and n? What do you thinkwould be effective yeah I mean I think, trying to be really specific about whatyou're doing I get a countless cold emails and code calls where I've noidea what the product is. You know I even get a lot of direct mail with likesometimes some really expensive stuff that's been sent over. I opened it up.I have no idea what that company does and if I don't know what the companydoes, you know Howis it supposed to help me ht. I think I think that the besttactic that anyone that would be trying to sell to me would be, like literallyboil down what how you're going to help me and two to three words and make thatthe subject lient. You know I have to scan through my email before Ibasically want tol me doleate everything bfor, I don't know therehave been two or three. In fact, I will tell you the best prospect to Ekno, Igod he was a recruiter who ended up using, and this person had seen one ofthe roles that I was recruiting for on the website and sent me threeanonymized resumes of people. I fit that description, nice, sounderstanding you need being specific in the response. Yeah I mean for me. Iwas looking for this role. I got an email saying: here's three potentialcandidates for this role. You know for for the role. You know the role maneand the emails like two sentences, Hey, I saw you're looking for this role. Ijust finished up a search for another company for this exact same role. Here,three anonomize resumes. If any one of these works for you launch it Ekmoi meback, and I ne give you the actual name, O get you on a calh form. It was. Itwas dynamite. It was great like and and sure enough. You know. I've beenflogging through trying to get candidates for this role I needed help.This is this is mych earlier on the company when we were when we didn'thave like an HR team to have tout t that sort of thing but like that washuge, and you know the the recruiter was right on the money. I was spendinga lot of time. Looking for this role, I wanted good candidates for it and sheoffered up three Nice, excellent, okay, so last question: We call it ouracceleration insight. If there's one thing, you could tell sales marketingor professional seurces people, one piece of advice that you can give themthat you believe would help them hit. Their targets be be more successful.What would that be and why, I would say the number one thing is: empahy anpathy,okay, excellent. You know pack that alitle before me, yeah, if you can'tfeel or understand the problems or the pain, or you know whatever's going onin your in your prospects life like, I think, you're Goinna you're, going tofind it very difficult to try to figure out what their problems are and to movealong to see of what you're offering helps them. You know with that at someof the best sales people I met they'll...

...just qualify themselves, so talk tosomeone figure out. What's going on and say: Hey, you know what my product canthelp you and then they'll, sometimes even give recommendation, say: You'reactually looking for this kind of product, here's a couple that we heardfrom someo, customrs hat they like a lot. I mean that the empathy is reallylooking at for the other person. The person talking you trying to help themtrying to figure out what ails them to you well, rather than looking at foryourself, because you really want to make that Dealo to make your number andthat's a great point. I mean that empathy compoment is unbelievablyimportant, especially as we as we find ourselves trying to get back to thathuman to human touch. Right like it's about not necessarily me it's about theother person and you need it if you have a consistent way of uncoveringthat I've seen sales aret be extremely extremely successful with that approach,but it is lbe honest, it's rare, especially when you have you know kindof going back tous talking about revenue executives want to Cobo Geo.They can feel that pressure and then have a tendency for that to kind offall by the wayside takes a little bit more w purpose and focus, I think, attimes, yeah. Well, you know what I can cycle that all the way back, I meanthere's different places where people are really good at an have having youfeel what's going on in someone else's shoes, I mean you know, Oscar winningmovies, like the drama that has everyone, you know reduced to tears, anEse. You know really really good books like you'r getting that person's shoes.So I think of the goal you know: hiwrited back Casilos, enablement, Adda,very high level, whether you know it's a markeing team trying to do trainingon the product or the market or the PERSUNA or seals team or salsleadership, trying to do practice on different pieces of the SAM ordifferent sale skills. I think that if you can evoke that same kind of likeputting someone in in the customer shoes, then you know you're doing agood job. That's that's, probably more important ton getting any specificdetails right about what you're teaching excellent exawell. Thank youfor that very much. So all right, everyone that is it for this episode.Please check us out at the BTB revezaccom share the episode withfriends, Fan the coworkers and please reater eview on itums or want morepeople, be aware of what we're doing here. Ilik. I can't think Ou enough oyour time today, so a absolute pleasure to have you on the show thins lot.CHATTES, here's a lot of fun to chat about all the stuff. Excellent again.Everyone thanks for listening and I hope everybody is enjoying Alex'svaluable insights until next time we aevalue prime solutions with you andyour team, nothing, but the greatest success you've been listening to the btobrevenue executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show in Itunes for your favorite podcast player. Thank youso much for listening until next time.

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