The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

5 Ways to Make Your Deals Larger with Brian Burns


Sales professionals are interested in making their deals larger, increasing the revenue gains and hitting quota with fewer deals. The challenge - few know how to consistently accomplish this.  There are tactics and approaches which have proven effective and continue to be table steaks for sales professionals selling today.

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Today, on the btob revenue executiveexperience, we're talking about five things you can do to make your dealslarger of your host Chad Sanderson, looking forward to giving you this withBrian Burns, and I and please stick around so a find out how I can buy you.A Cup of coffee, we're listening to the BTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast, dedicated e in executives, train theirsales and marketing teams to optimize growth, whether you're looking fortechniques and strategies for tools and resources. You've come to the rightplace. Let's accelerate your growth in three to one before we get startedtoday. Just a reminder: If you want a cup of coffee on us, just go to ourwebsite. BTB Rev ezactcom fill out the feedback form and we'll shoot you giftcard on us. Go get a cup of coffee as a thank you for your time and yourinformation we're interested in making sure that the show remains valuablemoves in a direction. That's going to keep you guys listening and that thatfeedback forms in an extremely important part of that. So please taketime to do that and would like. I said we send you gift card for a cup ofcoffee on us today, we're going to spend time with Brian Burnes talknabout the five things you can do to make your deals larger, ters, somethingthat all sales reps struggle with. Especially today is the buyingprocesses get more complex, therare more stake holders involved in thedeals larger the deal more stake holders you end up having, so how doyou negotiate that landscape in order to make your deals as large as theypossibly can Brian, and I spent some time kind of breaking down those topfive things you guys should be aware of and without further Doa roll right intothe interview? Hey, Chad, let's talk about how to get deals bigger. I thinkeverybody wants that and I think it's the smarter way of selling instead oftrying to do a bunch of tiny little deals all the time that the person whoreally seems to blow it away that I've seen is the person who's able to do bigdeals. Well, big deals I mean that's, you know everybody wants the biggercommission checks. Right fact, I was just talking to a person who used towork for me yesterday, she's, like D, You remeber the first time you got youryou know your first fiftythousanddollar commission check and I'm like. Oh yes,I do. I O exactly where I was standing, but then, when you think abouteverything that goes into that right, the work Heen you're talking about biglarge scale, BTB enterprise deals that can be eighteen. Twenty four, I meanI've worked on some that have been thirty six months of a sales cycle, andso in order to really make sure that those are are moving in your focus. Oneof the things that I think you have to do is you. You got to focus on makingsure you understand the business an can quantify the Roy back to each of thestake holders not to the business as a whole, because we'll probably be alittle bit different for each of the stake holders, because they're allgoing to have different metric so being able to really dive into that RoyQuantification and talk to them collaborate with him on building theinternal business case. So they can go, sell it internally when they have to. Ithink that becomes really key yeah I mean in my book. I call it the businessjustification and staying away from proposals where I kind of came up notlike I discovered it, but I I started know I was working on this huge deal at this.You know this tiny startup that I was at. They literally had you know, maybea hundrk of product revenue. When I showed up- and here I was working onlike a two million dollar deal- and you know we had to justify it and it wassuch an arcade or abstract technology. We couldn't talk about the product wehad to talk about. You know what was t the realtransformation it was going to give their business. We were reallyautomating how they set up servers and laid out. The software was, you know,back of the ASP application service providers, which you know today is whatyou would think of. Is Amazon Web Service thatight, and youknow it's alwas transformational, but you had to basically create a documentthat people could pass around and the magic. I had with it is, I alwayscalled a draft and it's amazing how powerful that Worit is...

...because no matter what's wrong with it.You can always say: Oh, it's just a draft. Well, ever all and everyoneforgives you you know and, and you can send it to people askingfor feedback- you put their logo on it, you make it look like they wrote it.You put their names on it and you know, and u basically show that you didn'tdone the DU diligence. You looked at all the alternatives. This is why youpicked it and you got to build in that business case of how quickly can theypay for this ow? How soon is it going to make money for them? And if you dothat out, you know five ten years with that Nice hockey stick Gra right,that's what people care about, and you know talking about it in the terms thatthey care about those are the things that are going to get to the deals thatare bigger. It's not going to be. You know great demo to the CEO. It's going to betalking in the things that they care about and then having it t has to bedocumented so that they can see it and grap visual forms and to be able to youknow. Is it made up? You know it's math, so it's, but if you do it once, and I basicallytook that and I had every sales rep in the company wanting a copy of it andthey started using it, but but none of them really did anythingwith it. I you know six months later, you saying I just send a quote: U KnowBecause that's I that is super eas easy, Ou right, that's easy out! If you wanta bigger deal, you got to spend the time and if you can do that, rycalculation like you're talking about you, can show that that it also andmigt again my reps used to hate. When I would say this is a pricing is a fanofobjection. If they're telling you you're too expensive, you haven't shownthem the value to their business. You have shown them the Roy and, if you cando that, it also helps you in the in the negotiation whethey're trying tosqueeze you or even with precarement I've used it with. You know thatapproach with precarement before but being able to show the long termreturns to the business. You know a two million dollar investment sounds like alot until you realize that in the next three years, they're going to maketwenty. So it's you know ten percent come on. You can do that. You can havethat conversation with with the powerbers and if you've got the numbersto back it up now, like you said, does it have to be one hundred percentaccurate? No, but to show that you're thinking that way and then to actuallyyou can even I've leveraged in the passes and hey? You know what I thinkthis modelis right. I think this are't, but I would love to talk to your CFO.Can I get thirty minutes to to see if o, let's validate this right, and it alsobecomes a way for you to get to those other stak holders because you'rethinking about things that they care about your thinking about the value tothe business? And if you can start to demonstrate that, then the deal sizeisjust get larger and that's it, and if you can evenoknowextrapilate it into market capitalization or evaluation for aprivate company, because if you're talking to the right people whichnumber one as get up the ORG chart, not I'm not going to do seven figure dealwith an end user. It just won't happen and the likelihoodthat that end user has the political savvy to work the organization they canhelp you. You know you could be partners in crime, but they're notgoing to be able to do it on their own. You know because they're going toBASICIC AL, I ran it byum and they're thinking about it. That's what you'regoing to end up getting well, you can't sell to somebody Wyou can't buy at theend of the day right you can spend and it's really hard. Sometimes I in be tobe enterprise, organizations to try and figure out and there's a whole bunch of differentways to classfim. Are they a mobilizer? Are they a friend or they a talker? Itdepends on. The gain depends on the sales mythology, but the end of the day.You really got to get to that person who has the authority to buy nd, andyou can spend I've, Seen Reps Ben countless cycles working on somebodythat isn't they maybe not even an influencer. They just happen to show upon the ORG Chare. We always talk about. I always aske. The reps find the guywith the swingline stapler right. It's...

...a off space reference for those thatthat didn't e fine because, like if you look at theOrchar, even your sea level, guys they're going to have people that theytrust that they, you know believe in that may not necessarily be right,inline in the Org Char, so you're. Looking for that, sometimes looking forthat fan of Mor Crik, just because this guy reports to one guy away from theCEO doesn't necessarily mean he's gonna, be able to influence anything so askingthose questions and really understanding, not just the Orgchar onthe paper. So you have some sort of map to go up but understanding it and Idon't know more than three dimensions, because there are other things thatinfluence that you got to have a plan going in, especially in large longscalesales. You got to have a plan for how you're going to get up to the peoplethat actually have the authority to sign. Seven figure deals I mean that'sa that's a big investment right. That's that's career, changing or career,ending depending I, depending on hot bad. It goes so you really got to getto the people who have you know the the Stak in the game and then have theauthority to sign that. That's it, and if you look back at any of those, I'mthinking through the seven figure deals that I've done in my career. You knowthere wasn't one of them where I didn't have that you know whether you call itthe Fox from you know: Holdin's book with the Camion Yeah it the Maverickr.You know, there's somebody there that gets a huge personal win by buying yourproduct. You know it's career changing for them. You know that the two milliondollar deal there was a young first line manager who you know were he wasthere every night to eight o'clock? He was you know he was wanted to move upthe ORG chart really fast. He was looking for anything that would, youknow, put a feather in his cap and he saw that in this product and we worktogether and he knew the internals there. But you know he didn't know howthe company really bought things or what the CEO needed- and you know wework together and you know w uld we built out. You know hypotheticalproduction of it. We worked on the business justification of it, but youknow. Could I have done it without him? Probably not. I probably could have gota two hundredk deal or fiftyk deal, but I couldn't have got a two milliondollar deal. That's a really good point in every and I'm with his. I think,through those large deals that I've done, there's always been and- and itoften has not been, as I think back has not been, the power person has not beenthe never by forever, but there's somebody who gets it. I think it was somebody in an HBRarticle refred to those as mobilizes people that actually have the abilityto kind of influence the internal organization, but you have to have thatcoach or mobilize or whatever it is, but you have to develop thatrelationship based on trust, like you have to trust the information they'regiving them, because I was used to say like when a customer when a contacttells you something don't believe it until you've heard it from three otherplaces. So it's all about triangulation. But if you can find that one mobilizr,if you find that person who gets it really gets, it has invested personalinterest and I think that's key. Then they can help kind of read the t leavesof the Org Chart and how guide you on the steps that need to get you up?intew the organization, so the deals sizes stay large, yeah and I'm thinkingthrough. You know I did a early in my career. You know half locked out yeah.It did a like. A five million dollar deal with a fifty million dollar conwow andand. It was a similar type thingwhere I had a ambitious firstline manager who saw that our product gavethem a competitive advantage, enormous competitive advantage to their customer.I then went to their customer and explained how our product gave him thatadvantage, and then he you know ashirt. You know me my manager, my CEO in frontof his CEO in front of the board members, and it was this partnershipthat had happened, and if we went straight to the CEO yeah, no idea whatwe did yea noyou know he couldn't tell... different than you know the peoplenext to us and didn't want to spend the time to figure it out. You know, that'swhy you know the top down. It's great to get a referral from the CEO to theright person, but the people who try and immediately convince the CEO Today,I don't think that's nearly as effective as it was a long time a Col.Well, not with I mean not with deal sizes. Not when you get up into sevenfigures, an it's just not I mean the cos want. They want to move reallyreally fast, but they want to minimize their risk, and so you might get areferral into the CEO and the CEO. If what I've seen over and over he's goingto raise going to refere allright, you need to talk to my vpof this or my bpof,that I go talk to that person and what I've seen, unfortunately, is repsforget to purchase what we call the return ticket like. Okay, I'll go talkto these guys. I just want to make sure I have the opportunity to come back toyou and get your perspective on it. A lot of them forget that last littlehook, right, like you, were at the top they're going to push you into the OARD,but you got to make sure you can get back right. You Gon to have that returnticket to get back to them and bring those other people thatyou're talking to o with them bring. You know that consensus building uparound your power players so that they feel more comfortable going with a dealin going with you specifically and going with a deal it's going to be thatlarge and that expensive yeah I like that return ticket idea. You know I'vealways thought of you know just always get the next meeting after that media.But when you get that referral getting the return ticket you're notgoing to ask her Ol can I have the next meeting goes? No, no. Did you listen tome? Rit! Excuse me, I was blowing you off.Did you not hear me, but your your point of you know getting commitment to gettheir feedback afterwards is like getting that next meeting withoutgetting it right. You just need te commitment and Wi'll come back to whenI have something important to say, but just remember when you see me come backthere'sths, there's reason: I'm back right, it's not just another, you knowcold call or me annoying. You, like I've, literally done what you've askedand T. I need your perspective and so having that Hook, because it's funnyyou can see I've seen some really ultra performers be able to. I mean some ofthese guys can just walk into the sea level or I've seen him walk into theboard level and they have great conversations and then, of course, youget pushed into all right. I'm selling I'm selling an IT solution. So now I'mtalking to the vpit or the CTO, but ie forgot that I'm going to need to goback to get. You know, input from the board or the CEO on board and theydon't they don't do that return ticket and they end up getting stimi like itjust stalls, because the CT is like well. I talked to you because thebosses said I had to, but I don't necessarily see is you know what I mean?So it's just that making sure and e used to call it thickin strategically,like don't don't forget where you've been on your math and make sure you'vegot a plan to get back there. Yeah, because I don't see- or I can't imaginetoday, you know a legitimate CEO telling some department to use thisproduct. You know because they don't they want the users of it bought. In Imean even any manager, you know would be smart enough to run it by the team.Before you know they pick an expense system or a you know, travel service orsomething because they want the people to use it, and I'm sure you know everymanager and ceohas been burnt by spending a lot of money on a productthat ends up. You know not being used and that just turns into wasteit moneyso that you know they want their team bought into it and they're not justgoing to take some sales rap to word. For it. Imagine your board sets atarget of twenty percent revenue growth in eighteen months, so something willhave to change with your sales team. How do you bet your target value? Primesolutions can help, ensure your managers and reps are leveraging asales framework that focuses on value, not price, don't assume you have it allfigured out, don't wait until it's too late visit value, Prime Solutionscomand let them help I want to. I do want to change my list. I know we talkedabout this Horm, but Yeu's just said...

...something earlier. That made me thinkof a way that I've seen several reps get thir deals larger and that'scustomer pressure. You mentioned going to a customer and I've seen you knowwhen you get into those large deals and you're trying to sell. Let's say you'reselling we're making this up. So nobody get upset, but, let's just say, you'reselling something to fedax emfhedex. Doesn't they don'twant to buy? But you know one of their largest customers happens to be Amazonright and I'm using really large brands to illustrate the point, but it Fedexdoes want to buy that. I want to bite, but you've been able to show the RoyI've actually seen reps go out and get the top customers of their targetcustomer and show them hey. This is what we're thinking we'r doing. This iswhat it would mean to you as Fedex customer. So then that customer turnsaround and applies pressure to fedax right to your primary target. It takesa little bit more time and it takes you know, making sure you've got somecontacts and stuff, but when I've seen pricing negotiations or deals stall-and you know like you, can you can validate the business, you know returnthet, our client, your your clients going to see going and talking to theircustomers to get their customers input can be a very effective strategy formaking sure that you know you're getting that deal done and then thatcustomer feels more comfortable buying from you yeah that that is enormouslyeffective and I spend a lot of time selling to the federal government and Andrepublic typically make themistake of either only selling to the integrators are only selling to theagencies. Now the federal government doesn't really build anything of itsown ther kind of like the administrators of what goes on they andthey contract out pretty much everything. So what I always did, B I'dgo into the agency and I'd explain the productivity benefits of our productover the alternatives, and then I would go to everyone who bid on theirprojects and I go well. You know and I'd say some general. You know I s veryconcerned about this. We breathed him on it. You may want to put this intoyour proposal and sometimes they would just put it into the proposal justbecause I told them that the customer wanted it you. No, we were talkingabout. You know five hundred KPC of hardware. This was not like you know.You know some SASC license for twelve doas a month. This was a majorcommitment and you know even then they buy it and a lot of reps wouldn't thenget them to use it. If they don't use it, they don't buy more rig, don't enew maintenance, they don't they're, not a referral. Well- and that's justit- I mean, if you can actually I mean a lot of reps- will spend time tryingto get and I've been I've done. This I've run down the rat hole. When I wasgoing, I was carrying a bag of I'm look, I'm telling you this is going towhatever increase your revenue. creatyour margin. This is, I can showyou this n and for some reason I haven't gotten the click right. There'sjust not that you don't see the click, you don't see, lightbulb go on andpowersize whatever it is and, and it turns out, if vast majorityof cases, it's fear like we're talking about a really big change, a right,wit's fear of change, it fear of that investment. What if it goes wrong, I'mnot sure how it will impact my business or my customers and so we'e going outand talking to it and bringing those customers their customers into thatdialogue reduces that fear. I've seen it reduce that fear and S, and, as alike, I said, does take a little bit more time and, and it may in some cases, make iteven a little bit more complex, but that doesn't necessarily mean it won'tresult in a larger signing signature on the contract, which is really whatwe're after yeah. My next one is, you know the peopledon't think about. This is find out a way of financing the deal for themeither yeah. You know, especially when you're talking six seven figures or youtrying to get a multiyear agreement and guess what you want is a salestrap.Do you want them to pay or by over five years? No, you want them to buy all atonce. I commission check needs you to... now, because you know how you getcumped on it. Next had it to your quot, which means you don't get paid for itessentially, and you know so that what you want to do is pull it in, and youknow certainly back. You know thees. Certainly the ASS people do this todaythey want. You know a two or three or five year deal that makes it look morelike enterprise software than it does SASS and back and enterprise software. Whatyou wanted them to do was prepay maintenance. You wanted them to. Youknow and remember, run times, EAH anbeded linsenses. He went oh yeah and you know the company.Doesn't Your Corporation doesn't finance it? What you do is you've, tryand find a leasing, company or a bank or somebody, and especially today, withinterest rates being so low, and if the company has great financials, it'susually pretty easy, yeah, Wene and there's so there's helping them findthet outside financing, but there's also I've spent a lot of time and again.This is more especially for big organizations. I had a one of the largetell comes, which I won't name names on this one, but one of the large tellcons. I ended up doing a really large deal with, but when the firstconversations I had, I have eighty they have eighty thousand dollars in budgetand I'm like well, you can shake our hand for less than a quarter F, amillion to get started right. So so we started talking to him and we got to apoint where the proposal was up into seven figures and he's. You know Ifound some of the money in his own budget, but what we did was we teamedup with other budget holders other silos in the organization that wouldbenefit from the initiative and convinced them to make up thedifference, and so it does a couple of things. If you can do that, if you findthe internal budget, it gives you an opportunity to get more people involved.Now again, it increases complexity in terms of number of stakeholders. But ifyou can manage it effectively, you can help your target. You know silo in yourcustomer, go find money from other areas in the organization that aregoing to benefit from it and then there's always the Sush Fund, like Ihaven't, run into a company, yet whereif you can. If you can make acompelling case at to the right person at power, it's amazing how quick theycan reallocate budget yeah I mean budget. Is I ballshit Ritin? It's the essentially the price thingit's just like you haven't interested me andnough. Let me give you some. Youknow it's like I'm just looking Ightik that I'm just that need jerk reaction,and you know- and I always talk about you know you should be able to preventevery objection, because you hear the same ones all over the time. It'snothing! You know when was the last time you heard a new objection. Youknow the only time you hear that is withmiscommunication. They just don't understand what you're talking about and if you go L I don't know whatyou're talking about Brian with this financing stuff go down to your CFALand say, like you know, do you know any finance companies when we buy big stuff,you know how do you amatorize it over? You know the life's time of the product.How do you depreciate it? You know who would you go to and they'll Sfos theyprobably got. You know a stack of business cards of people who call Co,call them trying to finance stuff for them. Exactly I mean and again it goesback to him and we've touched on this several times you have at your disposalin your organization the same types of people that you're selling to in theselarge organzations. Why not use them? I honestly think CFO is far underutilizedin complex hells, your own CFO, like get them involved in helping with thefinancing or or even the Ri calculations, or things like that. So Imean, if you can do that and leverage what you've got internally and helpthem find the money again. It reduces that fear and their perception of riskyeah and I, but they would dig it because they're sitting around you knowentering stuff into a spreadsheet all..., and you know if they can say. Oh,I helped close this deal, that's a big and they feel part of it and they don'tlook at you. As you know, some robber Barron trying to she right, overpaid and you know overstaked Ohyeah yeah we had had one ta- is totally inaside. I had a CFO who got on me onetime when I was an individual contributor about the movie had shown up on my hotel bill he's like well, we don't wedon't pay for movies and I was like well all right. I get that, but I wasworking and just had that in on in the background a well we don't we don't payfor that. So I was like all right. It kind of hit me wrong. I was young Wenyounger and probably more full of a journal in the name today, so I tookhim on the road. I took him on the row with me and, and we got done with aDave meetings and I said all right: Well, let's, let's go down to the bar,we have a couple drinks, we grab some dinner and then we get done with dinner andthe bill comes. It's hotel prices right, so we've had a few drinks. If out therethis bill is, you know five x, what that movie in my room would have cost.I just looked them and, I said: Hey I cul do this every time I go on theroad or you could pay for the Bove in the room he paid for the movies, but include the CFO in the salesprocess yeah, and that kind of my last one is, you know similar as far asgevting people involved, but when you are able to do joint marketing or jointpromotions, trade shows anything with the two companies are working togetherand making that part of the dealer in the initial sales process or developingof the account that is' such a great way to keep the report going andworking together without it being just a presentation demo, which a lot ofsales trepsthat. They don't know what to do outside of that for socializeright. Well, I mean that's more skin in the game right s. That collaboration,especially today, when all the stat show that buyers want to becollaborated with companies like that collaboration as well, especially ifyou're selling for a large enough organization where offering marketing-or you know, comarketing or events and traide shors like Youre talk aboutwhere that has like significant value to the people you're targeting I've seen deals actually increase insize. As a result of that, it's usually not a you know: it's not a line item.It shows up in your you know in your prodact portfolio, but all of a suddenthey were pushing you on price and you're like well, hey. Let's talk abouta way to collaborate on this event, that's going on in you know New York,city or Barcelon, O Spain, that's globally. You know whatever, and youcan see them understand that you're in it for the Long Hall Number One soyou're dealing with their fear and Youre, getting out ahead of that andyou're putting in place ways that you continue to work together. So you don'tfind yourself when it's time for renewals or you're trying to expand theaccount banging your head against brick wall yeah and I had a client and theywere having a hard time getting in front of this key technicaldecisionmaker who liked their product but hadn't committed to like doing anenterprise dealy. He was buying as needed and they were like. Well, youknow the end of the years coming up. We know there's multiple seven figuresthat they're going to need over the next three years, but the guys notworking with us and I go well. Why don't you get him engaged with yourmarketing department and say hey? We want to come in and do a videointerview with you and then we'll promote it through our channels. WouldOu be open to that and he was so flattered. Oh Yeah Thatyou know theyflew in or eat on it, but you fly and you could do it over the Internet. I'mnot saying that you have to spend a lot of money, but when you promote yourprospects, ind your clients, you help enhance their careers, you give them aplatform, your platform and they're promoting your product right. Theyended up doing a ten million dollar deal with this company. It was like youknow: Twenty percent of their revenue for the whole year, because the guy allof a sudden greenlit everything that they wanted. Oh yeah,...

Hey, you're, talking O yo mean you're,giving them everybody, I think, even especially executives. They understandth the importance of that personal brand, as well as thatpersonal brand and how it affects their organization right, because people thatwork for- and you like to see- I mean, unless they're, getting escorted out bythe cops you like to see your CEO Right, get promoted. Hou Want to see them, youwant to see them out. There t it builds pride in the organization. So if youcan give them platforms to do that, I mean there's a great deal of value. Ithink for both parties involved and then again it removes some of the fear.Around pricing builds that collaboration a D and allows you tomake you know bigger deals yeah and that your marketing departmentisresponsible for producing content today, right blogs, podcasts videos,testimonials ebooks and they need customer involvement and when you're,promoting your prospects, it's not taking they, they love to see theirname and print their picture on a website. It looks great on the resumethey get their name out. There makes them look. Their personal brand getsmagnified it's a great way of breaking the ice and keeping that rapport goingthrough the deal process. As you build up, the account o the size of the deals,all right, that does it for this episode of the BTB Revenue Executive.Experience appreciate you guys, listening with us, want to think BrianeBurns again for the time to do his collaboration really enjoying theopportunity to talk to him and get his insights and kind of do a little backand forth. Don't forget! We want to buy a cup of coffee, so please hit thewebsite. BTB, revizeccom. Click on that link to the feedback form fill that out.We'll shoot you gift card for Cup, coffee on us and if again, if you're inthe Denver area, let us know it accelerate at value. Prime Solutionscomlove to meet oin person and by that Cup of coffee in person. Also, please shareout the podcast friends, familyes coworkers, you guys have heard me sayit before more people that listen, the better off everybody is, and pleasealways write a review for us on itunes. We use those again to craft the contentof the show, thanks again for listening and until next time we value primasolutions which you would norres nothing, but the greatest success you've been listening to the btobrevenue executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show in Itunes for your favorite podcast player. Thank youso much for listening until next time.

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