The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 months ago

The ABCs of ABM: Account Based Marketing Made Simple w/ Mike Maynard


The meeting you have tomorrow is with the sales team. You’re anticipating a sleepless night. As you sharpen your pitchfork, you wonder why no one’s solved the alignment problem between sales and marketing. Then, you remember something: You’re not in Mad Men; you’re running a successful ABM campaign — and collaboration with sales is the name of the game.

My guest today is Mike Maynard, Owner at Napier Partnership Limited, who came on the show to demystify Account Based Marketing and explain how to harness its numerous benefits.

In this episode, we discuss:

  • What ABM is
  • How to implement ABM
  • How ABM helps better align sales and marketing

    Now that you know the ABCs of ABM, are you ready to learn how to craft your brand or establish a repeatable sales process? Check out the full list of episodes: The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

You're, listening to the bob revenueexecutive experience, a podcast dedicated to help in executives traintheir sales and marketing teams to optimize growth, whether you're lookingfor techniques and strategies were tools and resources. You've come to theright place. Let's accelerate your growth in three two one: welcomeeveryone to the b to be revenue executive experience. I'm your hostchat sanderson today we're talking about account based marketing. This isa word. That's been around for a while phrase. It's been around for a whilepractice that many have heard of we're to talk about how it most effectivelysupports sales leads to help us. We have mike maner owner of napierpartnership. Limited. Might thank you for taking the time and welcome to showthanks so much for me on the podcast chat. Oh it's our pleasure, and beforewe begin, we always like to ask a little random question. Just theaudience can get to know you a little bit better and curious to knowsomething you're passionate about that. Those that only know you from work maybe surprised to learn. I think quite a few people who know me from work. Iknow this, but but probably a lot of my acquaintances down, i'm really into short track, speed skating.So it's one of my hobbies, absolutely love the sport, think it's brilliantand yes, it does mean. I do have like crores so yeah, not not a nice imagefor people to start the podcast but yeah. I can assure you that there'svery few people in the in the audience when i race, so that's fine that youhave. I have to tell you. You are the first short track: speed, skaterenthusiast. I've had on the show how in the world, did you get into that? It'sa long story, and basically i had a friend doing some work for the lowclimate and dramatic society as it is. The way you always get into a skatingevent is an and it turned out that the local icehockey club put some of the players that they'd imported from canada intothe flat below him long story. Short we've started going to watch ice hockeyand then were on one game. We look at each other and said: well how hard canit be- and i said, o catichiz and chris said yeah i did it was about thirtyyears ago. I said: well, that's fantastic, because i've never skatedbefore, but let's try and play our ocus. We played ice hockey for a while. Itwas great and eventually i stopped many, because i had kids and in the uk youend up playing ice hockey really late at night. It's the only time we can getthe whole rink yourself and when i decided to come back, i decided i wasprobably a little bit old for the ice hockey thing. So and yet again ithought well how? How can it be? Let's try speed skating. The answer is thatboth of them are actually quite hard to do. Surprisingly, but great fun i meani enjoyed both of them and yeah. That's the spec skating ere, a really greathobby awesome. I appreciate you sharing that with us. So all right, let's getinto kind of the topic of the day. How about we start with a little contextaround napier what you do and how that influences your focus, indoor passionfor account based marketing, yeah, great question, so napes an agencyactually bought the agency back in two thousand and one and at the time i wasa client, the the owners were retiring and it just seemed like a anopportunity that was too good to be missed by my two thousand and one itwas not so govery wish i'd passed up because, of course it was a doctor. Youknow, and business was not quite so good in may,as it was in april. But hey you get these things so we're an agency thatreally helps be to be technology, clients, market and typically, you knowthe way i'm trying to explain it is a marking, a technical product oftechnical audience, so that might be marketing silicon chips to electronics,engineers or it might be marketing baggage, handling systems to airports.But there's all always a big technical element of the decision making processand what we're good is doing is taking...

...that technical element and engagingpeople without boring them stupid. With all the data, so that's what we do. We look at it asreally two challenges. One is to generate content so generate thisinformation is going o, be interesting and frankly, if the content i generate,isn't interesting, you've got real problems o matter. How many people seeit? It's not going to work and the second one is contact distribution,getting the content, you've created in front of the right audience and that'sreally where a camp base marketing comes in is making sure you get thecontent in front of the optimal audience for your client, okay. So,let's, let's start with the definition for account base marketing. This mayseem a little odd and maybe even for some of our listeners a little bitbasic, but i always want to start with a macro kind of contextualunderstanding, so we all have a shared languages. We as we begin thediscussion. So from your perspective, how would you define ab m today? So this is a actually a surprisinglydifficult question sounds really simplee. There are no end ofdefinitions of ab m and i can give you some formal definitions, but i'd rathertalk about what i feel a b m is so to me. Abin is about focusing yourmarketing resources on a particular set of target accounts, and those caninclude accounts at already customers as well as prospects, but all it is istaking what you do already doing: great marketing, but really focusing down ona smaller audience based upon which company they work for and that lets youdo so much more and be so much more effective. So you're concentrating yourbudget and you're also concentrating all your thought on a particular groupof prospects or a group of clients and prospects, and that's what i think ab mis- and i really do strongly believe that a lot of people they start doingabn and they start getting intimidated by all these. You know various specificdefinitions about what's programmatic ab m- and you know it's not important.Just focus your budget it'll be more effective. That's all you need to knowto start off and i really recommend that as a basic definition. That'ssomething we should all work towards. You know just making better use for abudget and doing great marketing yeah. I love that so when we think about youknow the ab approach it's complex in terms of execution, because you'reessentially wanting to be where your target audience is, which necessitatesyou actually know who that audience is, and secondly, where they are and how toget to them. So i'm curious how, when you say targeting an account: what arethe kind of the facets you think about when it's the the publishing ordistribution or outreach of the marketing content, so you can ensureyou do get the right message to the right person inside of specifictargeted accounts yeah, and you make a great point there chat. I love thatpoint that to start you've got to know who you're targeting and that's that issuper important, because we're focusing our budget on this particular group ofaccounts, if they're the wrong group of accounts, we're just throwing moremoney in the wrong place. So you're absolutely right. You've got tounderstand where you're talking and typically companies either have knowntarget list of companies, or maybe even you know, specific industries that theywant to target or they go and look at where their successful a moment andthen they'll either target more people in their successful areas or theirtarget adjacent markets. You know kind of what people call a bowling ballstrategy, so they look to go from one market to a very closely related market,because, if they're successful in market a probably market be which isvery similar, is also going to be a good market for them and totally greatyou know, to make account base marketing work. You've got to be reallyclear about who you're talking. You've got to have really clear reasons. Whyyou're the right supplier for those companies, whether it's a list or justa you, know a market definition, and when you get into abmarsch, even thosethat that have shown interest, maybe they've. You know, they've hit awebsite for that a form or a tenant. A web on are there's some some level ofinterest which there's no end of ways.

People can rank and qualunque dependingon what tool you're using, but at the end of the day, how do you look at andapproach those individuals from more of a like the way thatpersonal is blurring into business? These, as especially since everybodyhas been locked down in quarantine for so long when you do abmarsch, takinginto account the persona? So if i'm going after a, i don't know director ofit or director of technology, am i looking at them based on the industrythat they are in, or am i also trying to find demographic that might bleedover into say what social platforms that they're active on and where theymay engage? You know outside of the standards say, company stuff werelinked in. How do you? How do you bridge that gap between the businessand personal to still execute an effective abrim strategy? So i think the first thing to say isabsolutely we look at parsons and customer journeys and that's always areal cool part of our abn planning. I mean if you're, focusing down on asmaller number of accounts. You really should be able to have a betterknowledge of the decision making unit or buying committee. Whatever you callthe group of people that make the decisions, you should be altounderstand who they are and what motivates them far more accurately andfar more comprehensively than you would do if you're trying to target justeverybody. So absolutely you know, use those persones use those customerjourneys and test. I mean that you know you mentioned targeting existingcustomers. You know great way to test an account base. Marketing strategy isto start with some existing customers, because, hopefully you know them fairlywell and if you can make it work with those customers and grow their business,then probably you can attract prospect. So absolutely you know start withknowledge of the customer and then that knowledge almost always drives you tounderstand, not only that that kind of individual that persona from a businesspoint of view, but also to some etent from a personal point of view, andthat's where you can start looking at. You know, for example, as you say, thetypes of social media that they're likely to interact with, but it's aboutreally getting in their shoes and understanding what they're doing andwho they are rather than thinking about yourself and thinking about you knowwhat you want to say and how you want to project your company that that's thewrong way. A camp based marking should really be done from the point of viewof what you can do to help the account and that just requires knowledge, yeah,absolutely and and okay, so curious about data. So when we build out an abstrategy, we know that web cookies are phasing out here in the in the futureand there's this increase in the usage of customer data platforms to collectthat information that we could have scraped from other places. Before i'mcurious, how do you recommend clients leverage data from systems they mayhave in place in order to shape and format, maybe validate the personageand then shape and format kind of the strategy? For the outrage? That's agreat question: we're based in europe. We do most of our work and all of it,but most of it in europe, so we're very driven by the european g dpiregulations, although increasingly i mean, if you look at what's happeningin various states over in the us in california yeah, you know, i think ithink there's going to be similar regulations. So one of the things that maybe this is adifferent discussion, but one of the the things that's happening is this whole movement around privacy is all a bit disingenuous because itreally is a battle between big companies. So google, for example, iscollecting data they're, not stopping collecting data but they're starting toblock third party cookies, so they're limiting what other people can do it.It is absolutely there's a definitely a competitive advantage in google,stopping other people from collecting data and apple. From their point ofview, you know their competitor of arches. Is this privacy idea andthey're playing it really well, but to... successful, they've got to harmpeople like google and face book. So it's this. This interesting battlebetween the check tech giants, but what it means in reality is the we're movingaway from having quite so much data held by third parties, and that meansas a business, if you want to mark it effectively, you've got to startcollecting your own data. So you know it depends on your perspective andthere's certainly a very strong argument that gd and regulations likeit a stopping third party companies from aggregating lots of data whichdefinitely can be well. I i guess at best you'd say it's creepy. At worst,you say it's definitely invasive of of privacy, but what it is doing isactually meaning more and more. Companies need to collect data becauseeveryone needs to collect their own first party data. Now the great thingthe great news about data is, if you're doing an adman you've by definition,limited your audience to a certain group of accounts. So suddenly thisdata collection problem becomes less big. I'm not saying it becomes easy,but ab m absolutely helps with a data, because, because of your focus you'renot trying to collect everything or just trying to collect what you believeare going to be the most valuable prospects. Yeah could not agree moreand and here's what's intering with the data thing, and i understand i'm wayoff script and as anybody who's ever listened to this so knows that has atendency to happen, because my brain just kind of goes in different places,but i'm curious from a you know. If we think about data collection andcompanies are going to have to do it, you know with customer data platformsand things like that they have to collect their own data. I have alwaysfelt like third parties grabbing data from other places keeps them furtherremoved from their customers. It almost has a tendency to have them group them,rather than truly care about what the experience is, even though they have atendency to scrape that data for quote unquote, experiential purposes, i'mcurious, if you think the increase in companies collecting their own data will allowthose ab m strategies to be even more effective, because the data they'recollecting is coming through the way those prospects, indoor accountsinteract with the company or in the sphere of the company's in does thatmake sense. Absolutely i think you've really identified one of theopportunities and to me a lot of this regulation around datapeople kind of freak out when they get told they can't do something, but sometimes actually it's better notto do it. So the example i give is is opt outs on emails. We all feel the pain it hurts us allwhen somebody ups out of emails from from our business and it's natural, buthonestly, if you've got a recipient of emails, that wants to go to the effortto tell you that they really don't want to see those emails anymore. Do youthink those femails are effective? I mean it might feel good. I you know it res good for he's an extra person onyour maiding list, your melling. This is a bit bigger. You know your e goes alittle bit bigger, but honestly, in terms of effectiveness, has no impactin facts. Hopefully it lets. You understand more about your mainest byunderstanding who's engaged and the people who are not opting out are thepeople who are probably more likely to buy. So i think, there's always youknow pros and cons, and if you look at abn and collecting first party data,absolutely if you, if you focus on building and understanding and building,you know really models around how decisions are made in target companiesand you're collecting information about the people are making the decisionsyou're marketing directly to those people it's becoming much more powerful,because you're, really controlling everything and you've, got much moreinsight into what's happening because you can measure that, through whetherpeople click on your email or open it or you know, interact in other ways,but obviously there's also a downside.

You know, and one of the the greatthings about being able to do some of these more general marking activities,as you can, you know, throw a list of email addresses and those variousservices that will then advertise against those email addresses andpeople who've tried this cremery targeting will know that nobody getsgreat match rates on the the matching to beat be emails, mainly because a lotof this date is gathered through consumer services, so that might beface book or it might be. Google and the date is gathered by people usingtheir personally mail run their business, so you never get great matchrates, but those matrices are going to get worse as you go forward, so some ofour tools are going to get blunted with privacy, but equally by you know,changing the strategy would be able to actually compensate by doing otherthings better and more effectively. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I couldn'tbe more so when we talk about you know, it's seems like i mean i've. Been i'vebeen doing this for twenty years. I guess, and it's always been a you know:hey sales and marketing. Isn't a line sells a marketing is in line you'd.Think by now somebody would have figured this out, but i noticed in insome of the content that dudes and over that you believe that abmarsch closertogether really curious to help on help the audience understand that a littlebit better yeah. Absolutely i think, what's happened is that actually,although we haven't been running into each other's arms, sell to mark, i begetting closer for some time, and if you look back to the madmen days youknow marketing was basically i really like this ad. It looks good, i think itlooks good. You know to me. It makes me feel good. So therefore we're going torun it and that was kind of a marketing approach, whereas on the cell side itwas like you hit yourselves target or your fight and marking an selves were actually very,very different. Now there is still some marketing what you have to do thatdoesn't get data that is hard to quantify, particularly the sort of topof the final, the awareness level. But as you move, people through the funnelwith digital, more and more marketers, have got access to data that shows themwhat impact their marketings making on the business and then, as we move to it,to a dm, it's actually a collaborative effort. So it's not just having thedata that shows you how you're impacting the business, but it'sactually working together on building the campaigns with the sales team thatbrings marketing and selves even closer together and to me, that's only a goodthing, because really we need markings lves to worktogether to be as effective as possible and there's always going to befrictions and sales are always going to have a much shorter term view themarketing. So it's good to have two separate groups, because otherwise youend up all gravitating to a short term selves model or all gravitate into along term souse model and either the company goes out of business, prettymuch immediately because you're thinking long term or over a long time,because all you doing short term so two groups are a good little bit offriction. Never a bad thing, but definitely co. Operation andcollaboration is a really positive thing between marketing and sales andabmarsch. To do it to get people sat around the same table, love it, and so can you give us just ahigh level case, study or example, of how an abmarsch has been deployed andand the results have produced for one of air clients. Yeah absolutely- and ionly give the simplest example possible that i think illustrates a lot of thebenefits of ab m. So we had a client at that had some products that wereparticularly suitable for people making chips for artificial intelligence. We met the guy aran european sales for a viewmeeting we're talking about what we're doing. You know you have to have thenormal meeting at the end of it. You say: okay, is there anything we can doelse. We can do you know what else do you need the classic end of meetingquestion and he looked at us and he said:there's one thing you can do: we've got this company, my co knowsabout them there you know in the uk,...

...and i see i wants to visit them becausehe thinks they should be using this product and i can't get a meeting ifyou can do anything to get me a meeting. That would be fantastic and that wasbrilliant because we had very specific. You know this particular company shoulduse this particular product because of reasons x y and said so. Sales havedone their bit, they really primed what we needed to do. So we ran a linked incampaign that targeted specifically the people at this company, and that was itand in fact the company was so small that we had to do certain clever thingsto better build a big enough audience, so it it was very focused, but within aweek we'd got an inquiry from that company. Now that's not necessarysomething we could ever guarantee with ab m. I mean that there's always anelement of luck, particularly in terms of timing, and i'm sure that you knowsales pushing along with marketing doing things along with you know stufffrom the website it all of that contributed together, but the fact wecould aloha a proportion of the marking spend to solve this problem was great,and that was a classic ab in a one cup that one account abmarsch and the greatnews is. Is you know after you know, from the marketing point of view, wedone our work there, the sales team came in, they brought the co in and myunderstanding is actually there. They've won some business, there'sgoing to be a long term relationship and it's been a very successful projectand it's so simple. It's just like sales person needs a meeting in aparticular company because there's a real reason that they want to talk tothem. That's about as simple as you can get with ab m, but i think it's a greatexample of how powerful it can be as well yeah. I agree and i think a lot ofpeople have a tendency to over complicate it. They have a tendency tosee all the the new tech and the new things they could do, and we could dothis. We could do that and it's kind of like his going after the new shinything and has a tendency. Next thing you know to get overly complicated andthen attribution bein becomes a problem and you're not really doing ab any more.So it's an interesting, it's an interesting conundrum for a lot of alot of people out there. So let's switch direction here a little bit. Weask all of our guests two standard questions towards the anda interview.The first is simply as a company owner that makes you a prospect for a lot ofpeople out there they're trying to sell stuff, and if somebody doesn't have areferral, indo a trusted refaim always curious to know what is it for you whensomebody's trying to prospect you that captures your attention and earns theright to time on your calendar? I think it's absolutely having something that'spersonally relevant and that this is going beyond the you know. As an ownerof you know, marketing agency, you will probably be interested in prott orprouty, but it's really going in and giving very specific reasons that showthat the salesperson- i guess, has really taken the effort to understandmy business, because as soon as you feel that they've got someunderstanding. The business suddenly there's this this element of trust thatthey're not going to try and push something on you that is less relevantyou or less effective, and it's very psychological, because i don't thinkthere's any evidence that that this is really the case. But as soon as i feelsomeone's understood the business understood the challenges, then i feelreally good and winna pier its understanding that we're not just amarketing agency, but we focus on a very specific group of companies inspecific sectors and that presents challenges and whether we're buyingmedia databases or computers. It has an impact on what we need to buy and sosupplies who do that. You know do very well and because of that, we tend tostay with supplies a long time, because once they start working with us, theydo build an understanding about business and that's really helpful tous. Absolutely absolutely all right. So last question: we call it ouracceleration insight. There's one thing you could tell sales or marketingprofessionals, one piece of advice that, if they listened to, you believe, would help them hit theirtargets or exceed him. What would it be? And why yeah this is. This is a toughquestion and i think it comes down to...

...this sounds really weak, but beingtonation, i mean the number of times. I've said to someone that there's noway this. This prospect is going to engage with us, we've tried, you know,five, ten fifteen twenty times nothing's happened, i've picked thephone up and boom they've talked to us and there's been an opportunity, and ithink the rule is you've always got to do one moreoutreach than you really truly believe you could possibly ever need, and it'sjust that persistence and consistency. I think really matters and most salespeople are a genuinely good settles people. They want to sell a productthat customers want. They don't want to pop them off with something that theydon't need. They want to. You know, build long right that they're all goodabout that, but it's that persistence and we all hate the rejection of peopleignoring our emails and not returning our voice mails and it hurts all of us,but i think picking up that phone one more time definitely would be the bitof advice. I'd have and i'm just thinking now. I really need to tellmyself that, because he's a few people i need to t i love t, we call it respectfulpersistence, you gotta be ifere, love it all right. So i can't take youenough for being on the show. Where do you want us to send people if they haveinterest in learning more about napier? We're talking to you specifically aboutabmelech? You want us to send them website linked in some place else.Absolutely so the website is napton, so you know we're being very focused therein terms of saying we're anything beat to be. The linked in presence is if yousearch for mike maynard at apia, you'll find me, and if anybody wants to dropme, an email direct, i'm i'm always happy to have conversations. So ifanybody really wants to ask a question and wants to get through to me directly,just email me mike at napecomb- and you could have probably guessed that emailanyway, i love it all right man. I can't think you enough for taking timeto be on the show today is been an absolute pleasure. Thanks, chats beengreat, all right, everybody that does it for this episode. You know the drillhit. The website be be reexamine the p so with friends, family and co workers.You like what you're here loves your view on i tunes until next time we havevalue selling associates with hell nothing, but the greatest success you've been listening to the b tobrevenue executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show in iton or your favorite podcast player. Thank you somuch for listening until next time. I.

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